Persimmons & PowerBilt with Trevor Larsen

In this episode, Trevor Larsen shares his unique journey from golf course superintendent to innovator in golf club manufacturing. Discover how he combines craftsmanship, innovation, and small-team agility to create cutting-edge golf equipment, including 3D printed drivers and custom persimmon clubs. In this engaging interview, Trevor Larsen shares his passion for vintage golf clubs, especially persimmons, and discusses his journey with Larsen Golf and PowerBilt. Discover insights into the art of club making, the nostalgia of traditional golf, and Trevor's unique approach to craftsmanship and business.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Driver off the deck. Record excuse driver off the deck. They're off the driver off the deck. I think you would drive the driver. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

You have to put your foot on the gas. You pull out the driver off the deck and you put it on the drain all the way up the hill.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Welcome back to another episode of Off the Deck. I'm your host, Josh Decker. We've got Mr. Trevor Larson joining us today. How are you, Trevor?

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Uh busy. Busy, busy. Glad to be here. Easy to carve some time out for you guys. So very much.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Fun to be on. Yeah, thanks for taking the time. And before we dive in, something I've I'm actually you're gonna be the first person I do this with. Why don't you introduce yourselves or yourself to the listeners and tell them who you are, what you do, what your title is. Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Okay. Well, I'm Trevor Larson. I'm the uh director of operations and marketing at Powerbelt Golf. And then I also own and operate uh Larson Golf Co. uh full persimmon shop. And yeah, I've uh yeah I do a lot of different things.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Those are the two main ones. So um which that's it's kind of what I wanted to dive right into. Um so uh I was fascinated when you texted me, uh, asked you your title ahead of us coming on, and you told me what it was. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You've combined the operation side with the marketing side. Um because just in in my world, those are two vastly different departments. Most of the time they don't get along with one another. So I would I would love to hear um what your priorities were when you got the position and and how you kind of make that magic happen between those departments.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Well, it's fairly simple, being that there's only two of us in this office. So uh we wear many hats all together. So um I came about it, uh it'll be a year here and just a couple of weeks. Um, it started with uh the Larson Golf side of it, refinishing Persimmons. I got in touch with Paul via social media. Paul's the president of PowerBelt, and I'd refinished some persimmon woods and posted them and he liked them, and we started talking because we're both here locally, and uh I started doing refinished persimmons for PowerBelt, and he invited me to the PGA show, not this last couple weeks ago, but the year before, and um helped him run the show and doing all that and met the owners, and uh it kind of came down to Paul's like, Well, I want you to work for me, we're gonna try and grow this. You know, what do you want to do? And it's like, well, I'm good at the marketing and brand building side, that's where I do things, and uh I convinced the owners, and the owners were on board and brought me in. Uh, yeah, like I said, a couple of weeks, it'll be a year, and uh yeah, running both of them is a major pain right now. It's full operations mode, and uh I've never stared at a computer screen this much in my life. Uh, before this, I was a superintendent for years, so um coming from outside to inside has been a big adjustment, but it's been fun. And yeah, I do definitely have to fight the marketing to operations side quite a bit, but luckily all I have to do is fight myself, so it's not that hard.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

And so for for a golf club company, the operational side, that's all the manufacturing, the order placement. Uh I mean, day in and day out. That's that's what you're dealing with, correct?

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Uh yeah, for the most part. I mean, I run our team as well, so we've sponsored a few players. Uh, I signed a guy, Josh Wasil. He plays on the DP World Tour out in India. Um, we've got a couple of college kids. Uh Rowan Sadou plays at Virginia State. Uh Todd Dempsey is still a part of our staff. And so I run player support as well as well as that and all the social medias and everything. Uh, but dealing with you know, orders uh worldwide, I mean, I'm looking at the list in front of me here is stuff to Denmark, to India, to Spain, uh, Australia, New Zealand is what I've been dealing with all week. So dealing with worldwide shipping on top of all that and uh making sure people get what they want if we even have it. And uh it's a little bit of a nightmare, but you know, we push through it, we get forward, lots of Celsius, lots of uh, you know, I mean, I've got the Dunwoody on the desk here just in case. So you keep the bourbon close at all times. Uh it's at least out of arm's reach, so it's a little bit less of a temptation. I have to walk all the way around my desk. Yeah, but it it's there.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

So so the the feedback that best I can tell, I mean, I I am in awe of this stuff that you guys have created and have learned more about the brand just as time has gone by. Um, it appeared that you guys made a splash at the PGA show, and like you were saying, there's so many things that are currently out of stock. Were you expecting the response to the Atlas line and then the response to the 3D driver? Like, was that something you guys were expecting or completely and totally out of the blue? Hey, this is incredible success. We're off and running. What what did that look like?

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Oh, so the year before Atlas MBs were out, they got invest in show with the bronze with my golf spy and everything. So we knew Atlas was gonna be good. Uh, we knew the CBs were gonna get a nice look. Um, the biggest thing this year compared to the year before was uh the first year I was there, it was a lot of, oh, I used to play Powerbow, my dad plays these, my grandpa played these, I played these, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This year was a lot less of that. And it was more of what's new, what do you guys have? Oh, I saw these online, I've been wanting to hit them, I've been wanting to play them, you know, where can I get them? Stuff like that. So it was a completely different like vibe change at the booth this year, which is really exciting and very unexpected. The CBs were a huge smash hit, and then the drivers, the the ones you alluded to there, you got the the Atlas Tor driver, it's a 410 or 430cc um driver head that's fully 3D printed titanium. Those ones were so close to not being at the show that we had to ship to our condo in Florida. So we we didn't advertise it at all, uh, clearly beforehand. It was the first that anyone in the public, other than people who saw it on my phone or at the range or whatever, had ever seen it or even heard of it. So it was so close to not happening uh at all. But on Tuesday night before the show, we do a demo night typically um at an indoor facility, and we busted them out, and people it blew their minds. And so uh the biggest response was probably the mini driver. Um, it's currently in my bag, being that I'm a persimmon player, it seems a little bit blasphemous, but I can actually hit it. So, because I can't hit a regular driver to save my ass, um, including ours. So um other players have hit it and loved it, uh, but I I can't hit them. I need something smaller. So our mini's 310. Um, it's an absolute animal. And so that one got huge response. That one's much closer to being ready for market than the big driver. We still have a lot of things in development that we're working on with it. So we're hoping that both of them will be out later this year, but definitely the mini driver.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Very cool. Well, I was about to ask if because I didn't think that those were on the website yet. And and what is it that's advantageous about the 3D printing process? I mean, I feel like everything's sort of becoming 3D printed these days, but what what is it that changes for you guys? Is it the cost to manufacture drops tremendously? Like what is what is it that makes that such an appealing product to take to market? Uh honestly, it's more, it's just it's something different.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

It's you know, no one else is making a 3D printed driver right now. Of course, Cobra's doing irons, and I mean there's a Japanese company that did a 3D printed driver, but it's like$1,200. Or not even$1200, it's like$2,500 or something like that. Um when it comes to the manufacturing costs, it's it's a little bit more expensive, in fact, but not anything outrageous. Um, I could be wrong on that too, but I remember when we saw the the cost of it, we were pretty astounded. We were shocked that it was where it was. So um, but it's kind of like the customization of it, you know, the driver's got floating grates on it. It's all for visual, but it's just something cool and different. And then whenever we get it completely dialed in, and for our players, you know, if they need weight somewhere else, you don't have to rely on Rack Blue or anything like that. We can with a couple clicks away, we can add weight in the driver or remove it and and change it around internally, and then they can just print the head and and send it out. So um it's a lot of customization thing like that. Um, and it's it's something new, you know. Everyone comes out with a new driver every 25 seconds. Right. We haven't come out with one in I don't know, 20 years at least. Uh it's directly out of our office, and so just something cool and different, and um, it's just a gorgeous looking driver. Um there's no posts of it really anywhere officially. Um, but you can find it.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

What's it what's it gonna retail for?

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Uh no idea, but it's probably it'll be comparable to uh all the other OEMs and everything like that, maybe even a little less.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

Okay. That's yeah, it's really cool. I mean, just and the like the cutaway image of it. I don't know if that's what it's gonna look like on the inside once it's done. I would imagine it is, with kind of the spider web looking of all the pieces that are holding it in place. But yeah, a fascinating image to say the least, what it looks like.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Yeah, that the the print of it itself has got more structural things to it. So a lot of it gets cut away. There's kind of like a like a honeycomb on the crown that gets cut away and gets replaced with a carbon top. The interior's got a couple of things that just hold it that get cut away, and then clearly everything on the external side of it gets cut out and smoothed down and painted and all that kind of good stuff. So um it doesn't have anything wicked when it comes to technology interior or anything like that. You know, it's it's a fairly I don't want to say standard, it diminishes it what it could be, but you know, it it's there's nothing out of this world new or anything old about it. It's uh it's kind of the perfect blend of classic to modern.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

That's that's very cool. So and and correct me here if I'm wrong, but it feels like that Power Built has been kind of resurrected. Um, like I remember the brand when I was like my dad having the clubs, and there's obviously like a hundred-year history of PowerBuilt and and the clubs being on tour and all that. What what brought about the the brand kind of being brought back to life? What what spawned that? It was it someone just wanting to do it, or or how did that come to be?

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Yeah, I mean, really all credit that goes to Paul Bo, the president. Uh he's been here for about six years. Uh a couple years ago, he decided to develop with uh with Todd Dempsey these MBs. Those are the first Atlas ones that came out and uh it kind of caught fire and um like a little small fire, but it uh it put a lot of fuel into his fire and got him going and and starting to create and develop. Uh David Martin, a designer, um both of them have worked together for years and they've been creating a lot of really cool things. And so it came about just with the spark of the public when those MBs came about. Um and then when I came on, I just helped expose it more. You know, we grew from 3,000 followers on Instagram to like almost five or almost 15,000 now. Um, and that's within the year. So you know, just getting more eyes, and yeah, it's it's been fun to be able to do that and just interact with people on social and then doing the shows, and then we try and do things around here locally in in North County, San Diego, and um we use super swings. He's down in San Diego, Javier is a phenomenal club builder, and he's got a full studio and hitting bays and gym and everything, and so he's he's our builder um for our custom stuff, and we send our players down there and um just building a network of of people that play it. So, I mean, we've I've sent stuff out to the Gimme Golf guys in St. Louis, and I get texts all the time from them about how good it is and how much they like it. And you know, we got Ryan O'Mara at Wildwood playing the CBs now, and he he called me, which uh I mean Ryan and I are good friends, but if Ryan's calling me, there's something urgent. Okay. And uh he called me and was like, dude, I just played pumpkin and these clubs are ridiculous. He's like, What did you just give me? And it's like, well, you know, I'm just giving Harry his wand there, buddy, you know. So um, yeah, it's been a lot of fun dealing with that and and uh and getting these clubs into people's hands and having them talk about it and then just kind of poking around because I mean I I literally haven't spent a dollar on marketing uh when it comes to ads or anything like that. Not not a penny.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Wow. So I mean that includes the growth of just the social media like you were referring to.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Yeah, I mean, so we've used product and giveaways, so I mean you're technically spending money there and taking out of inventory, but when it comes to, you know, a media marketing bill, it's zero. So um that's something that we're hoping to be able to change and grow and be able to get more eyeballs on more things because everyone knows eyeballs are potential customers, so um we don't need to get into boring marketing strategy, but you know, it'd be cool to be able to do that. Um, but where we're at, I mean we're cooking, we're firing all cylinders, doing what we can with what we got, and I don't think a darn person's upset with it.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

So well, and it's a beautiful product too. Like we're all familiar with the logo, uh or the the brand at least. And then like today I was looking at your wedges, which I'm probably gonna order some from you because I need new wedges anyway. But the Robbie can vouch Robbie can vouch for those wedges. Okay, good to know. But the black and the copper and the raw, like it's I'm I'm kind of stuck. I'm mentally blocked because I don't know which color or which finish I want to go with because they all look incredible.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Yeah, I I play the raw and I have a set of gun medals as well. So it's a it's a special finish on it. I don't want to give away our industry secret, but uh it doesn't wear out very quickly. I mean, on the on the irons themselves for the bronze, it took Todd Dempsey over nine months and you know, a PGA tour level amount of hitting to finally wear through them. Whoa. Um, so it's a super durable finish. By no means is it bulletproof, you know, it's gonna eventually wear out, but I have played my black irons for over a year, like almost a year now, and I still don't have a scratch on them. I mean it's uh it's pretty impressive compared to a lot of the other finishes in the industry that you know you hit it on the mat a few times and the black's gone and or whatever. Um and the bronzes, they kind of patina with it, they end up getting a little bit brighter because they have this kind of a dark brush over it. So they get a little bit brighter and then they start to patina a little bit and get neutral. And the the finishes stick really well, they spin like crazy. Uh, they're super controllable, they're all one piece forged Japanese steel. So, you know, if you wanted them stronger or weaker or whatever, you can bend them. And uh, I played them on every turf that you could probably think of, whether it be super soupy wet out in Tennessee or really firm and tight in Nebraska to every San Diego condition, uh, sand, firm sand, soft sand. I I love them. Uh, and that's not a sales pitch. I I love these wedges. I don't think they'd ever play anything else.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Okay. That's well, that's good to know. This this became all of a sudden an expensive recording, but that's fine. Um guy. Yeah. Um, so is there anything on the horizon for you guys? Obviously, we we've talked about the the three driver that and the mini driver that are gonna come out down the road, but anything else that is in the hopper for power bill that y'all are working on that you can share?

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Uh, nothing that I can really share, no. Um, it's kind of a growth stage trying to get settled in um and trying to get to a spot where we can come out with more stuff. I mean, we kinda are in a really nice spot of what we have now. Um, availability is kind of tough, but we've partnered we've kind of partnered up with Golf Shafts America, somewhere where you can get all the products minus the drivers, because those are still being developed. Uh, but the irons and everything, um, we constantly dream up new ideas. Um, but being so small, and we also have uh the head product line as well. Uh so head golf, not the apparel, but head golf gear is ours as well. So we we run two companies with three people. Um so right now we've been kind of focused on on getting that house in order and then kind of dipping back into the power build. So trying not to be stretched tooth while still keeping up everything. Um but when we get settled back in um after that PGA show, which we're still recovering from, they'll there'll be plenty of new stuff to talk about with PowerBuild that's going to be really exciting. Um, whether it be you know new bags, new putters, things like that. Uh there's there's plenty on the horizon. I mean, I've got some some sleepy product here that'll that'll come out whenever I can get photography, but nothing that no one doesn't know about.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

That's exciting. Well, at the outset you mentioned that um there's just uh inventory challenges. Is there a timeline on you having items back in stock uh that the listeners, if they're wanting to go to powergirl.com right now, and I I saw a handful of the wedges were out of stock. I think some of your iron sets were out. I know the actual wedge set was out of stock. What's the timeline look like on getting those items back readily available to the public?

SPEAKER_02 19:02

So, I mean, most of them are. You just you have to get them from golf shops America. So, and we do the same pricing as theirs, so it's not like you're getting a deal here or a deal there. They're right in our neighborhood here in Carlsbad as well. So um, Golf Shafs America's got all the CBs, they've got most of the wedges, and then they build their. So if you were to order from them, you can pick your shafts, your grips, your ferrils, all that kind of stuff, they can build them and send them out. That's something we don't do out of our office. Um it's too darn small and we don't have enough time or people. So um, yeah, the wedge sets have been gone for quite some time. I think I got a few here and there. If there's you know, if there's something that someone sees that they really, really want, if you message the page, I won't admit it on Instagram, but it's me. Um so you know, there's there's that. Um, and you know, we can typically find something or at least guide you to the right spot. But Golf Shafts America is gonna be the the best place to get your PowerBill gear. Uh they're really good friends and good partners. Um, many of it's it's not something where it's like a discount, whatever, or you know, offloading. It's like they're our our guys, their distributor, they're they're a partner, and uh they have everything you could want too. So, like I said, you can custom build anything out of them and they build them right there in their shop.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

Very cool. That's okay, good to know. So so items are readily available, even if they're out of stock on powerbuild.com. Golf Shops America has all of it. Okay, sweet. That's good to know. Because yeah, like I said, the stuff I was looking at, I was like, God, this looks so good. And I'm glad you mentioned the putter because the putter is so clean. The putter looks tremendous. Um well, we got two, so which one? Oh, so we got the blade. There's two blades. Okay, and then I don't know which one, but it looked really, really good.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

You know, like I mean, I was So we've got we've got the 1020, it's kind of the 8802 style, the classic um, you know, one-piece blade. And then we did a putter collab with Weston Mahan, uh, which I'm sure you've heard of out of Utah. And that blade is is silly. And uh the response to it's been crazy. You've had people like, oh, I don't roll a blade, they're by, you know, and they roll it, and they're like, Oh. Like, yeah, dude. I mean, you know, things are built with a purpose, they're not just to look pretty, you know. Things were very well designed. We worked closely with Weston, uh, Paul, and David. They they all put together the design together. I kind of got to chirp in on little things. Um I just take pictures of things and put them on the internet. Those guys do all the math and weight and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, when the product comes in, I'll go out and play it. And that's that's my input. But you know, it was a one and done project uh for that putter. Like, you know, we did the first design, we got the sample, and it was it was perfect. Wow. Um so that was fun to be able to do and bring that out and have the the the public love it um and lose their minds over it. And we did a couple five like five hand stamped ones that I sent off to Weston. He stamped them himself and finished them and did all that. Though there's only one left. Um, I don't know how it's still there. I think it's just because people are still in off-season in less fortunate parts of the world. And um, you know, it's been super fun to be able to work with him. I've known Weston for years, and so being able to bring him into Power Belt and and do this kind of little project's fun. So we hope to do a couple more of those or or branch out with the other, you know, smaller putter designers and things like that as well and and kind of collab. So like we really like to bring in, you know, we did like McKenzie Bag stuff, Roscoe Golf, uh, his head covers. Um, you know, we like to do collabs with with a little bit smaller companies like us, because you know, we have the perception of a huge company, but we're really not, you know. Um we've got the big name um and the products to back it, but we're we're still Still growing. So being able to do that with other companies like that and and really mesh together this golf world is super fun for us. And that's what we want to continue to be able to do and and make cool things that you can't really get anywhere else. And then once you get them and then they're gone, they're they're gone. Kind of keep them limited, keep it special, and you know, make people be able to brag about their golf bag a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Yeah, that's one of the amazing advantages of being nimble. Uh and one of the questions I had for you is how many employees, how many full-time employees does Power Bill have? Three. Oh my gosh, really?

SPEAKER_02 23:21

That's it. Yeah. That's it. There's three of us, and one of them is currently in Vietnam for a while. So Okay. And uh he's based in in Michigan, so he's not even in the office. Um, so there's there's technically only two of us here in the office every day.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

That's incredible. Well, I mean, if you if I had to guess just from our conversation so far, I'd be like, okay, there's 15 or 20 of y'all, but but insane.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Yeah. So when you order something from powerbuilt.com, uh, you know, as long as it's not one of the package sets, you know, you get a hat or some wedges or whatever, you'll get a handwritten note. That's me and my terrible handwriting.

SPEAKER_04 24:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

You know, and I box it, I ship it, I drive it to the post office. You know, it's it's uh for lack of a better term, it's still very mom and pop. But I mean, we really wouldn't have it any other way. We get to do things the way that we want, and um, you know, we get to make some of the best product out on the market and still float around, you know.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

That's cool. That's that's uh you gotta be having fun.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Oh yeah. I mean, it's we you know, we shoot the shit all day and you know, we'll we'll derailed most of the time, but you know, we got a little putting mat. We'll start throwing putts across the office or whatever. There's a driving range not far. We get everything done uh as best we can, but you know, there's there's still some full-off time for sure.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Yeah. Well, and I want to talk about Larson golf, your your own business. But before we do that, your world and how you grew up in golf, the the intro introduction to the game. Um, how did how did Trevor Larson come to love the game of golf like we all do? And and your path to being a superintendent. Can you can you tell that story?

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Yeah, I mean it's it's all family. Uh my grandparents played, my parents, my dad, my dad played. Uh so I mean, I grew up on a golf course. I grew up playing since I could walk, but uh, you know, as a kid I focused on baseball. Golf wasn't cool then. Where'd you grow up? Um I grew up in Napa, California. So uh uh, you know, Bay Area light, as I like to say. We're not Bay Area, we're not quite northern California because the rest of my family where I learned how to play was up in Humboldt County, you know, uh way, way North California, um, where everyone but me still lives, basically. And um, you know, I grew up playing at Willow Creek Golf Course in Willow Creek, California, which I could be willing to bet that maybe two people have heard of. And uh we played up there. It was Bigfoot at the time, and then they changed it, and then it got sold to some weed farmers, and then they went under and they couldn't grow any of the things, and the people who lived around and hated it. And now the tribes bought it property back and they're hoping to build the golf course again. It was supposed to open this year, but now it's not gonna uh, you know, it's it's a whole thing. So Bigfoot is a really cool spot, a really special thing. And at my house, I have one of the yardage placards uh from when they first closed down the course that I got from my grandma. And uh, you know, so I I grew up playing, I played freshman year of high school, but then just focused on baseball, and then um sometime around 22-ish, picked up the six again and you know, fell back in love with it. Now ever since it's been it's been full go and getting into being a superintendent. My cousin who lives up in Oregon, uh, he's the assistant superintendent at Riverside Country Club currently. Um, he's been doing it for years, and I just wanted to find a way to play more free golf. And, you know, I've got a got a jaw break and bunkers to be able to just play. And, you know, it was really cool and fascinating. And, you know, uh it sucked waking up so early, but you get off at 1 30, 2 o'clock in the afternoon, go play 18 and go home. It's like, okay, that's not bad. And uh just kind of got good at it, was paying attention. Um started at uh I started at Poppy Ridge in Livermore. So I was driving like 80 miles one way to get to work.

SPEAKER_04 27:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

For it was just for a couple of months, but it was an intro. And then I got at Spring Creek Country Club in Ripon, California. Um, she was my girlfriend at the time, but now she's my wife. We were living in Modesto, so Ripon's really close. It was with Spring Creek for about a year. Uh, and then I was gonna move, we were gonna move out to New York. I'd gotten offered the assistant position at Fenway Country Club in Scarsdale, New York. Okay, and then COVID hit, and so that was 2020, and they called and they're like, hey, you know, we really want you for this job, but this whole thing just happened. We don't know what's going on, we don't know if you'll have a job, we don't know if we can stay open. Like, we don't want you to move across the country to not have a job. And I was like, Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Yeah, I appreciate that. And then a couple days, you know, I was kind of bummed, obviously, one because of what was happening, and then two, just kind of missing out on a sick opportunity. And then a couple days later, uh, El Caballero Country Club in Los Angeles came ringing. He said, Hey, we got this big project coming up. We're redoing the whole course with uh Robert Trent Jones or Reese and uh and as you know, it was his dad's course. Now he's redoing it, and you know, we need an assistant. Did you want to come down and interview? Yeah. So I hopped in the car, it's like four hours driving down for an interview. And uh my wife loves the beach, so she's she was kind of happy about the move to LA and say, and I got that job, so was we were there for a year redoing that course, and uh, you know, bef right about a month or two before it was gonna reopen, I got an offer for a superintendent job in San Diego, and so I mean I got from bunker raker to superintendent in about five years, which is insane. It's absolutely insane. Meteoric rise. Uh yeah, uh dumb luck and just sure will, I guess. But I caught an offer with uh a little nine-hole HOA course to be the superintendent, and so we moved to Oceanside. Um and uh we've been here ever since basically. So um was there for a couple years and then went over to Reedy Creek. It was an 18-hole par three course. It was there for a year. Uh that place completely killed my love of turf and everything like that. Whole list of problems. It was no one individually, it was just the situation we were all in. Uh, and then Power Belt was able to come to fruition and be able to come over here and do this. And this is something I'd much rather do uh than being a superintendent anymore, you know. So uh golf has basically ingrained my life since I I retired officially from baseball. And and uh that's all we ever really do now, man. It's right. You know, I I've I've wind up four golf trips this year already, so it's uh pretty lucky in uh being able to know the people that I do and be able to get the opportunities I get. I'm super lucky and grateful for all those, and it's been a whole lot of fun.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

So those early days of playing, um, I know you have a an immense passion for persimmons. In the early days of your playing, when you were young little Trevor Larson, were you playing Persimmons back then, or were you playing steelhead drivers or metal drivers like we we all are accustomed to today?

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Yeah, I was playing I was playing literally the steelhead. Um the cow, big bird, the steelheads, the warbirds. Yep. Um, I don't honestly remember many of my clubs back in the day. I mean, I know the first set of really cool clubs I ever bought were the title of ZBs, those blades, and I got them for a killer deal, and it was a terrible idea because I sucked, and I grabbed these little tiny blades and whatever. I still have them. Um they still have the same grips from high school, which is crazy, but I don't play them anymore. Um but you know, no, I didn't really get into persimmons until coming to Oceanside, and it was Goat Hill Park, where you know, if you want the record at goat, you have to establish it with persimmon. And um I grabbed one and hit it. It was great. I mean, I played a couple when I was at at Spring Creek from time to time because it was funny. Um, I actually came across a video of it not too long ago, just peppering one down the middle, and was like, I guess that was really the first time I started playing it. And uh I just always hit them better and you know, so it goes, I grabbed a few, and then uh my dad was a cabinet maker, so I grew up in a wood shop. I did I did finish work uh living up in Humboldt for a company called Wals and Hines. We built bars for people all over the world. The last bar I worked for was for the owner of Walmart's daughter, it was an eighty thousand dollar bar. Wow. It was you know six feet by seven feet. It was insane. And so I did the finished work for them. So, you know, all the detail sanding, all the staining, everything to where I mess up, it ruins a you know, potentially a hundred thousand dollar project. So did that, and so after that I had these persimmons I was playing with, and they were kind of beat up. And I was like, well, screw it, I can get a sander and you know, see what I can do, and refinished them. They came out nice, and people are like go like, oh, can you do mine? Can you do mine? Can you do mine? Yeah, sure, your buddy, I'll do them. And then it was like people like, oh, you should charge for this. I was like, okay, yeah, you know, whatever, 50 bucks, sure. And then they got more, and then I started collecting them and I started the Larson Golf Instagram page. It was two years ago, uh, four days ago. So Larson Golf's two years and four days old. And um, you know, people were following in pretty quickly and just posting stuff about refinishing, got to do some events at Dog Lake Brewing Company, just selling a ton of refinished woods, and people were messaging, Oh, do you want these? My dad had these, grandpa had whatever, we'll just send them to you. I'm like, okay, and so did that, and I got linked up with a dude in in uh Palm Springs, he was selling a full collection. He was an old refinisher and builder, so bought, I don't know, 300 clubs from him with a bunch of old grips and tools and things like that. And my garage slowly turned from, you know, a couple of golf bags to a rack of about 400 persimmons, about 10 staff bags, a workbench, a laser engraver. And now I don't even park on my side of the garage anymore because there's so many tools. Um, my wife loves to tell that story. Yeah, it started with a rack for all of the extra head covers, and now it's this. So um yeah, getting into the persimmons just kind of happened wildly and out of the blue, and it it happened so fast. I was actually really surprised the other day when I came across. I was like, oh, it's two years now.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Damn. Like, okay. You know, um, we've been able to do a lot of really cool things. The biggest project uh quantity-wise is I refinished 120 drivers for Omni La Costa's 60th anniversary. That was a nightmare.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

So you already had them and they and they sent them to you to refinish? I had them. Oh, you had them? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

So they bought them and I refinished them. Um I got to play in the tournament. That was fun. I was on that new the new North course where they have the NCAA championships. So that was a lot of fun. It was a ton of work. The worst part of it, I mean, standing and standing heads and and measuring and all that stuff's the easy part. It's it's the whipping. So I whip them by hand. I don't have any kind of machine. So I literally had, I don't know, a quarter inch of tape wrapped around all my fingers, hand whipping these things. And uh after about 60 of them, my fingers would bleed. And so uh it was pretty brutal. A friend of mine, Dave Anderson, came in and he he did 10 of them for me. He said it wasn't a lot, but those 10 really helped.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

Um how long does it take to whip? And and for the listeners, I understand what you're talking about just because I saw your hand motion. So, and and it's probably best to come from the expert, not me. But explain what whipping is and where that is on a persimmon club.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

Yeah, so I mean if you've seen a persimmon, it's got a little, it looks like black fishing line essentially, and it's on the neck of it. And the reason it's there is it's obviously the thinnest part of the wood. It's gonna get stress cracks, and they put that on there to like keep the stress cracks at bay. You know, if they're still tight, they won't crack as much or anything like that. It also keeps it from chipping and whatever, but so back in the day they used it's I don't know and I don't know exactly what it is, but it's basically a thick fishing line. Okay. Is always used. Now what I use and what Todd Dempsey uses is like a a wax leather sewing thread. So it's uh just like a wax thread that's decently thick, and that's how we can get all kinds of different colors and everything like that. And so um yeah, you just gotta tie it and whip it. It takes me, I don't know, depending on how many stripes, if there's stripes or not, and it's only like five to seven minutes. It's not super time consuming. It's just very repetitive of literally wiping or wrapping the string around and then looping it to where you can tie it. And um it just, you know, the string's only what, like a couple millimeters thick, and so I gotta get it, you know, three inches of whip. So however many millimeters fit in that three inches is how many times I gotta remove it.

SPEAKER_03 36:54

It tapers uh uh in as you get further from the club head. Is that because you're just putting more around the base? And so that's more whip around the base, like where the shaft actually connects with the club, or is that or the club head, or is that is there wood behind that?

SPEAKER_02 37:09

So I mean, as as you a shaft will go into a persimmon head about three to four inches deep. So, you know, it's not it's not like a modern club where you only need an inch with some epoxy. It's it's in there fairly deep. And so as it as I like to call it fluting, is you know, it gets thinner to the top, it flutes its way up. Um, it's mainly just for look. I mean, it it makes it smooth into the club head. Anything beyond that, I wouldn't know. I'm sure there's another reason, but I I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

But so all that thickness at the bottom is just extra layers of that to get to the oh no, it's wood. Okay. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

I mean, you can we're on a podcast, so visually for anyone listening, it doesn't work, but yeah, it's all wood.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

Okay, okay. So where the and I guess you what do you what do you call that? Like the neck of the clubhead, maybe? Yeah. Okay, yep, that's the neck. Okay. And so you did 120 of those, and that was just one job?

SPEAKER_02 38:29

Yep. Yeah, that was one job, and I think I had about three months to do it, which is not enough time. Uh, I bit off a little more that I could chew, but uh, you know, it paid for the chipping grain in my backyard, so that was nice.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Which I would it's funny you mentioned that because I had a phone call today with somebody about putting one of those in at my house, and I have an idea of what those cost. So that was a great job for.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

My backyard's not big, so it really wasn't that bad. But uh it was yeah, that's a project I'll never do again. I don't ever want to do that many refinishes ever again. Um, but that was a little bit before I was able to finally make my own. So, you know, when I started it, it was just refinishing, it was making everyone's wood looks pretty and functional and getting rid of the paint and showing the grain and really just showing off the lumber that you've got. And the goal was always to make my own. And, you know, finding these tools is impossible, really, because the people that have them use them, and then there's no other ones. So, I mean, there's there's four or five of us in the US that still build persimmons, being John Hayes, Nimbrand, David Bass, Todd Dempsey, and myself, and I'm really hoping I'm not forgetting anyone, I'll feel terrible. But those are like the quote unquote big names, not including myself, but you know, those guys um have been super helpful to me. I can call any of them at any point and ask a question if I need to. And uh, they're always more than happy to help. But when it comes to, hey, do you have an extra uh jig to route out the soul plates? No, no, no, we don't. You know, which I mean if I'm in their shoes, I don't have an extra one either now. So we're all on a group mix together. Oh no. Those they're all those goes are much older. I don't know if they really know what the group text is. Um man, I hope they don't lose and think of an asshole. Um, but you know, there's there's still a couple of places Louisville Golf still makes heads, and then another factory I'm not gonna name for secrecy. Um I'm able to get the things that I need to make my own heads, and so I get them with the sole plates in and the faceplate in and the score lines done. And then from there it's super rough, so I hand shape them uh just with a uh a rotary sander and then a piece of sandpaper in my hand, and I hand shape them and then throw in all the weights wherever a customer may want it, or the way I like it. Um I use an old titalist driver that was my absolute favorite. That's my my base for swing weight and headweight and things like that, because I like I want it to be just like that. Um and so it's it's turned into really fun. I think I sold about 50 of them since I started making them. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:19

Are they all really custom, or do you have some that you just sell that are it's just like your your rack version of a persimmon?

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Majority are custom, and when I say custom, they got to pick like their stained colour and whip collar. Okay. Um, and then I've done Sweeten's Cove, uh, got four, five. Okay. I think it was four for the shop and one for Debski. So um did some Sweeten's Cove ones, so I'm able to laser engrave logos on the bottom. So did Sweeten's Cove. Um, I've done some for smaller companies, just one-offs for guys with their logo on it, and I always put my logo on it too, because you know, I I made it. Um and then really cool, and I got the okay to talk about this one because I have two projects going on right now. Um, you will find Larson drivers at the new Rodeo Dunes.

SPEAKER_03 42:15

That's cool. Congratulations. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Yeah, so there'll be some 10 or 12 of them there. Um, all Rodeo Dunes up with the logo and everything. Did they reach out to you? Yeah, we can say that. Um I won't I won't reveal the secrets, but there that order is in and and in production. So um, you know, when I start to be able to get something interesting, I'll start posting about it. And once I get the okay, I got the okay to just say that they're gonna be there. Yeah. So um that's super exciting. And then there's another project that I have not heard from, so uh I can't really talk about it, but you most certainly will see it by the end of next month, uh, you know, a couple weeks after this episode comes out. Um I'm making some woods for some very, very, very impressive people um or person.

SPEAKER_03 43:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

And uh it's uh an insane honor, and and it's uh it's gonna be really cool. So I wish I could talk about it, but I know that's exciting.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

It'll be fun to keep up with that as it progresses. Um I mean the Rodeo Dunes thing is cool enough as is, but uh and it's I obviously you're not gonna we and we don't want to reveal where you're getting those heads from. So you said the score lines are in, and that's the score lines are like the lines cut into the face of the club, correct? Yeah, it is essentially your groove. Yeah. And so so that comes to you, and it's just it's not a block of wood, but it is cut a little bit, kind of looks like the club head of a persimmon. And then you're going to take it and sand it, mold it how you like, correct? Okay. So what is that entire process from the moment that arrives to you? Is that something it takes you a few weeks to assemble and put together? I mean, if I understand that if you're gonna laser engrave and there's all kinds of different customization, that's gonna take more time. But what does the timeline look like from start to finish to to building a persimmon?

SPEAKER_02 44:24

Well, so if I had no other obligation in my life, no dog, no wife, no wanting to go play golf and drink beer and eat tacos. Not in that order, and you meant just me and your wife before the dog. Sure. Uh um, you know, and no no full-time job that is can be taxing at times, you know. I could I could make one and turn it around in uh three days, depending on the weather, if it's kind of rainy or crappy, because I try everything outside. Um, and that's in a perfect world of this is my full-time job and the only thing I ever have to do. So in reality, um, it takes a couple of weeks just because I get to chip away at things.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

Um, I tell customers it's anywhere. Between you know six to nine weeks. Um just because that gives me time if I get home and I'm tired and can't focus up, like I'm not gonna go and put out a subpar product just to rush it, you know. Yeah. Um but all in all, you know, if you were to you know set a timer like a chessboard or something like that, it's probably you know five or six hours of work um in total. And um, you know, that goes with shafting it, putting in all the weights, melting the lead, drilling the holes, engraving, which is easy as you set it in a computer and hit go and not have to do anything from there. But you know, the shaping takes a bit, uh, making sure that the line is nice and smooth and clean and not wavy and crappy. And um, you know, and then when you put on stain, if it's a darker stain, if you didn't sand it perfectly, it's gonna be a little glob spot. So then I have to go through and sand it again and do all this, which is why I typically like to do lighter colors. It's way less sandy. Okay, makes sense. Uh yeah, and so um, you know, to give away a uh the secret of it, it's it doesn't take that much time, but I need that amount of time because life gets in the way.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

So and it sounds like there's some meticulousness to it, um, which you have the background from the the cabinetry work that you were doing and finishing on those products. You've kind of grown up around it and understand the the details that go into it and making sure everything is exactly right. Um you mentioned drying the items outside. Are there climate impacts to the persimmon before it's finished or no?

SPEAKER_02 47:11

I mean, extremely there could be in theory, but I'm lucky enough to live in North County San Diego where it's typically 75 degrees and sunny. And so when I say dry it, I mean I'm drying like the lacquer that goes on the coat on the outside. Okay. Okay. Uh the wood it the wood itself, when it comes to me, has already been killed and drying. Um, and if I want it to, it can be oil hardened. Um that just takes a little bit longer. But um, no, I mean it's not drying out the wood like a piece of beef jerky or anything. It's it's just the the lacquer, so you know to put on multiple coats 45 minutes in between each coat. It's um it's nice and breezy in my backyard, so it helps dry it faster, and then full cure, you know, it's 24 hours, and I can that can happen in the garage. But you know, I like to put about four coats of lacquer on it, and then depending on what it's being used for, if it's a show piece, that's totally fine. If it's a playing piece, I'll put on um some of this like really high-end furniture wax um that mutes the color a little bit because I don't like making anything shiny, so everything's a satin base.

SPEAKER_04 48:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

This will kind of give it more of a matte finish, and then it protects it a little bit more. Um and then that's how I can do like a lot of like quick refinishes, is just with that wax. It's called Brie wax, it's awesome. Um and it gets it gets pretty darn hard. And so, like some brass clubs I've made. I made a couple of three woods, and the guy burned through the finish uh hitting off a mat. And it's like, well, you know, it's expected. And he wasn't mad about it, I was more upset about it or anything. So I sanded and cleaned the bottom, whackered the wood side of it, and then used that that wax, and he's been hitting it off the brass and no marks, nothing. So it's been phenomenal to see. Um and just do kind of tricky things like that. It's it's hard to explain without it in my hands, and then sometimes I can't even explain it. I just I just know how to do it.

SPEAKER_03 49:03

Um yeah, I mean there's so many different ways you can go with it. Yeah, well, and it's fascinating to me that you chasing the course record at Goat Hill is kind of what led to this. Like Oh, I wasn't chasing the course record at all. No. No, oh no, okay, but you just you wanted to play Persimmons because of that, and that's that's kind of how this all came to be. No, is there just more fun?

SPEAKER_02 49:23

Oh, uh Yeah, it was uh I want to say it was a persimmon tournament, and they're more fun. I I I honestly I hit persimmons better than I do a modern driver. Like, not even a question. Um Robbie's seen it. Everyone I I played layman my whole trip I did last year with Ryan O'Maray. I only played persimmon. I so all of last year it was pure persimmon the whole time until I got the mini driver, and that's the most modern club uh driver wood that I've hit. Um I don't play three wood or hybrid or any of that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 49:55

So if if I'm ever playing around you and I just I just need to listen for that thwack, and I'll know that it should.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Yes, yes, you would. Uh I mean, I do have the mini now, and the mini has been been really fun, and I've noticed a little bit of lower scores of the mini. So, you know, the mini's not going anywhere, but if we're just having fun, you know, out playing, it's probably gonna be persimmon.

SPEAKER_03 50:16

Okay. So it it's interesting to me that you mentioned that there's four other gentlemen that are kind of left in the country doing this. Do you feel like it's a dying art?

SPEAKER_02 50:26

Oh, it's 100% is. It it it definitely is. It's uh it's growing back. I mean, you see a lot more dudes trying to refinish their own or trying to figure out how to make them. So it's it's it's dying, but you know, that adrenaline shot's been thrown into the thigh a little bit, you know. So um it's by no means dead or over with. But, you know, mass production, big things like that, you're not gonna see. But dudes like John Hayes, he's he just posted a picture today uh doing a collab with BB and FCO, and he made the sole plate, the metal aluminum pieces look like a feral. And this dude does incredibly intricate sole plates and face designs. Um, you know, I don't know how the hell he does it. It's got to be a little tiny hand router or something, but he does some incredible things, mixing metal and wood and uh all this really cool, fancy, super bespoke one-off things that you won't see anywhere else. Um so you have guys like that, and you guys like Nimbrand or David Bass from myself or Todd, or there's more traditional old school persimmons, you know, regular sole plate, nice face plate, and uh and you know, typical stains. I I do a few in a white stain that I really like. It looks like it's just like a dead raw piece of wood. And yeah, anytime I bring one of those out, people are like, is that even finished? I'm like, Yeah, it's it's done. So that's you know, that's like the most different thing I do, other than color the different color whips, uh, which a lot of the old heads don't like, but that's fine. It's not your club. So um yeah, I mean it's it's dying but not dead, I think is the best way to give a long-winded answer there.

SPEAKER_03 52:11

So a a cool cool thing that my father-in-law has done for me lately. Uh a couple years ago, he gave me um an old Odie Christman uh chipper that's got like a hickory shaft in it. And then uh before last he gave me uh persimmon and he saw how I reacted. And so since then now he just finds vintage things to give me, which is a lot of fun. Um the when I go in like my local thrift store, I was in there just a week or so ago, and I saw a rack of clubs that were persimmons. I mean, I picked them up, they looked just beat to hell, but I don't know what to look for. Are there brands and quality products that if I go back in that thrift store and find those names that I should look for for things to try and snag if they're there? Or is it kind of they're all still the same, they're all persimmon, they're all 100 years old. I mean, that's an exaggeration, but uh are there things to look for?

SPEAKER_02 53:07

Yeah, I mean, there's certain brands and names and then wood types. So I mean, a lot of people will mistake uh like a laminate head for persimmon when it's actually maple laminate. So if you look at the face and it looks like a you know, like the side of a skateboard, multiple layers like a piece of plywood, yeah. That's a laminate wood. They started making those in the 80s uh because they were one persimmon was getting expensive, they were running out of it. It kind of has like they still perform extremely well. It's by no means like a worse product, but when it comes to value, quote unquote, they're nowhere near as valuable. They're kind of the the cheaper solution to wood woods. And um, you know, if you see those that are thrift short, they're not worth nothing. You know, they'll probably hit really well. Like a lot of the ping, actually, I don't think ping ever made a full persimmon. So the ping persimmons are actually laminant. Interesting. And again, there's there's nothing wrong with it, it's just a different construction. But you know, if you look for you want to see McGregor's, if you see like Tony Penna on anything, um, if you see like Byron Nelson on anything, this is gonna be pretty good. Obviously, Ben Hogan, a lot of the Hogan woods uh are really good. Um if you ever see a McGregor M85, uh grab that. Those are some of the the nicest ones they ever did. Uh obviously, when you get into players, you know, if you see like a Jack Nicholas one, if it's a full persimmon, those are a little bit more rare. They're not necessarily like worth anything, but they're just cooler. Um there's so many of them that it's it's hard to kind of narrow it down. Right. Um but yeah, I mean Stan Thompson's are really cool. He was in Beverly Hills for years. He made a bunch of really cool, weird things, and so kind of just stuff. I mean, if you see titles too, titles didn't make too many, and that they're really good. So titles.

SPEAKER_03 54:55

You didn't even know titles made them. That's that's fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

Okay. So Joe Powell's actually another name, which if you found one of those at a thrift shop, I'd be shocked. But Joe Powell's the one who actually made heavy majority of the titleist persimmons with the titleist name on it. Okay. Uh you'll find a lot of titles laminates too, but if you find a full titles persimmon, it was probably made by Joe Powell. And uh those are super sick. So um Callaway had a couple persimmons, uh, not too many. If you see one of those, that's more than likely gonna look like it has a hickory shaft, and which it technically is, but at the same time it has a metal rod through the hickory shaft.

SPEAKER_04 55:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

Um, which is pretty cool. They call them like the long driver. I've got one and I only kept it because the way that they came up with that shaft was so interesting. It was, you know, Eli Callaway was trying to figure out how to keep the hickory shaft straight, and so they found or Matt, I don't remember how, but it was a Japanese pool cue maker. And they're like, Can you make us golf shafts? And he's like, Well, yeah, I we can figure this out, and they found a way to get a metal rod, a small metal rod, through the hickory shaft and keep it straighter for longer, and then you know, um that's wild steel shafts and like yeah, it was it's cool. So I I kept that 'cause it's an awesome little piece of history. Um you know they m at the time they made a ton of them, but um you know, steel shafts started coming around in the twenties and then really replaced hickory in the thirties. Okay. Um, which a lot of people were kind of shocked by. I I know I was, I didn't think steel shafts would be around that soon. Um but you know, when it comes to looking for things, it's just find whatever's cool to you. It feels good, it looks good. You know, it's not often you're gonna find a holy grail.

SPEAKER_04 56:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 56:40

Uh in a in a thrift shop. But I mean, out Kentucky area, something like that. I mean, the thrift shops around here suck for persimmons, uh, which you'd be surprised at being in San Diego. But you know, you you totally can find. And if you ever see something, just text me. I'll tell you what.

SPEAKER_03 56:56

Yeah, well, and like like that half set that I bought from you. Yeah, like that half set bought from you. I want to I want to complete that with persimmons, and and I want to have that in a walking bag that I can just loop around sweeten or whatever just to have some fun with. And so I've been looking at stuff because my wife wants to put the ones for my father-in-law like on display, just like put them on shelves and stuff in the house, which I'm fine with, but I want to be able to take them out and hit them. I'm gonna send you pictures and you tell me if I should hit them or not. Um, but it's it's fun to just go look at those old clubs and kind of reminisce and try and take yourself back as much as you can to what the game was like before the solid core ball and these 460cc drivers that go forever. Um, so it's and it's there's something about just the there's something romantic about it, right?

SPEAKER_02 57:50

Yeah, and it makes the game harder too. I mean, you know, um it makes you a better player. You'll see parts of the course you've never seen. Uh there's a wow factor when you play them well, you know, people gather around the T-box to watch you hit it, which can be nerving to some. I've gotten used to it over the years, but like, you know, uh the biggest thing is like, oh, you actually play that? It's like yeah. Like, you think it's like a like at the donut weight where it's really heavy and using as like a weight club? Like, no, this is my driver.

SPEAKER_04 58:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 58:23

Yeah, I'll see I'll see you down the fairway. Yeah, I couldn't get it 250, which is an absolute thump with a persimmon. Yeah, that's handy. To be fair to that, also, I do have a UST and a Super 76, you know, the Lakers shaft and my persimmon. So um, but yeah, I've been putting modern shafts in some of these heads, and the performance is insane. And I get, you know, what ball do you play? You use a softball, yeah. I I use Pro V1 or TB5X, like no problem. Not a big deal. You know, when you have older persimmons, you gotta be careful with it a little bit. Older epoxy will break and things like that. But you know, any of the new stuff, use whatever ball, it doesn't matter. You know, I'd hate soft golf balls, so I'd rather I'd rather sacrifice probably four or five yards off the T and be able to play my irons and wedges the way I want than you know use a soft ball. Um because I just I don't like the feel of them, except for hickories, but you have to with hickories. You cannot play a hard ball with hickory, right?

SPEAKER_04 59:27

Right.

SPEAKER_02 59:28

You know. Um yeah, that's a huge question I get all times. What ball do I use? Like use whatever you want, you know. Play at your own risk. Even a new persimmon can break.

SPEAKER_03 59:38

And is that because of an imperfection in the wood, or just over time that happens?

SPEAKER_02 59:42

Uh probably more both. I wouldn't say over time it happens, because I mean there's there's clubs that are 100 plus years old that still work just fine. Um, but yeah, it'd probably be some imperfection, a carbon spot or something in the wood. Uh it could have dried out and cracked. You know, it could, you know, uh the grain went a certain direction and a crack went down. And you know, it's it's like a piece of furniture, you know. Eventually it'll break, or it might not. You know, it's uh every every single club head's different. You don't and there's no they call it a repeater is what it's made in because it repeats the shape, but that individual head is it's a snowflake, it's different than every other one that it's next to.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:20

Yeah, the furniture analogy is great. Like that, that like a light bulb just kind of went off in my head when you said that. I mean, we've obviously we've talked about this for a long time now, but that that makes complete sense of like, yeah, it it might last forever, or there might just be something, a little nick in it, and that happens, and then that leads to a crack and it breaks. That, yeah, makes complete sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:38

Yeah, or you go somewhere super hot and humid and then go somewhere cold, the wood shrinks or it expands, and you know, the inserts a little bit off, uh the the sole plates either shrunk in or are kind of bulging out because the head shrunk. I mean, it's it's a piece of wood. It at one point it was a living thing and it's still somewhat living after after the fact, depending on where you take it in your climates. And you know, uh oil hardened ones don't do that as much. They'll soak it in like a linseed oil for like a week and it basically turns it into a hammer. Like you can literally put a nail in other wood with those when you when you oil harden them, they get rock hard. Yeah, which is pretty cool. And that's just because that's the wood. So people, you know, they they've tried heads with ash, which is typically what like bats are made out of. Um didn't work as well. It's just persimmon is so tight and hard naturally that it was the best for heads, and uh hickory shafts were the best for shafts because they're super strong but flexible. Um, you know, and it's uh it's a whole other world compared to the modern stuff where it's like, oh, we got this new AI face. Like, okay, cool. Like I used my hand in a file.

unknown 1:01:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

Again, we'll see who's in the middle of the fairway at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:50

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love your passion for it. Um, it's it's unique. Um, and it's like like we talked about that it's something that's it's kind of a dying art. And I love that you've built a business. Um, I'd call it, I wouldn't I'd say it'd be insulting to call it a side hustle because I think it's more than a side hustle. Um, but you built a business off of it. And the laser engraving work that you've done, um, like I've seen the ones that you had at Sweeten's Cove. I mean, like you said, any logo you can put on there, and it looks beautiful. And I I did notice when I first saw the ones at Sweeten's that they were all satin. There was nothing glossy about them, they were not shiny. And to your point, it it it does create almost an unfinished look, but they are finished and they look fantastic. I I love the look of them. I don't like anything that glistens or shines. Um, and and just the the different logos you can do, it's all really, really cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:48

Yeah, I I like to let the wood speak for itself. You know, I that was one thing when I first started refinishing, it was like I always liked it the most when I got one that was painted. And the reason they painted them is there was some imperfection in the grain, whether it be a carbon spot or the grain kind of wiggled somewhere that it didn't like. And because when you break down the grains, there are better grain patterns than others. You know, the tighter the grain, the better the the more the the like circle of the ring gets to the actual top of the club, like the toe, the better it is in theory, you know. So you you want to see like a continuous ring going all the way to the toe is kind of the ideal piece. And so back in the day, if they had something that was just a little bit off or had a again a carbon spot or something, they would paint it. And a lot of them looked great, don't get me wrong. You know, they look good. They put like a you know, the decal on top or whatever, and they look great, but to me, uh I'd like to have that wood speak and and show off the grain, especially if it's crazy. I love a crazy grained driver. I'm working on one right now that I've posted a couple of times. It has probably the sickest grain I've ever seen. And um that makes it a lot of fun. And so like my first run of Larson heads were all usable reject Ben Hogan turns. So they were they were old heads that uh were were turned already, and they were what they called a usable reject, so like they didn't have any deficiency to playing it, but they didn't have the grain that they wanted, they didn't have that perfect, perfect grain. And so I've gotten to have a few that just have this wild pattern going in different directions, which is super sick, and what I really like, and everyone who's bought one has loved it. So it's been it's been fun. And I actually I sold through those, and I think I've got the collector's number. I think he saved 40 of them for me, so I might be able to get some more. Um, but it's it's been a lot of fun be able to do some really cool things, and then I mean all the artwork, I do that myself also. So like the Palmer logo, or I did this tiger the other day, or it was a cougar or something, I don't know. It was a wild cat with my name over it. It's like I'll just do that, you know. I've done uh the power belt logo is fun, the shirts over there is like the the the more paint or whatever painting over a persimmon out of a cup was fun, and just being able to do literally whatever I want has always been a blast. And um, you know, I tried apparel and doing all that. It was just a pain in the ass. So I got rid of that. We're just gonna focus on on the woods, and uh mainly this year is just doing more of accounts and more sales like that than individual custom orders because frankly I got tired of really annoying people um, you know, wanting things before that they were done and right inside a time frame that I gave. And it's like, dude, I told you it was gonna be this long. It's only been half that time. No, it's not done. Like, you know, I get people get super excited. I understand that, but you know, you gotta let me do my thing. I've got a life beyond it. But it's way more exciting now to to to be able to do something like Radio Dunes or this other project. And um, hopefully now that Sweetens is down to just one, do some more for Sweetens. You got the Land Man hat on right there. I would kill to do some Land Man ones. Um, you know, just hopefully get him some other courses and do some do some things like that uh rather than you know individual one-off customs where you know you get to pick everything that you want. Right. Um, you know, and then I'll I'll do some stock ones and just pick what I want. And you know, if you want it, you can buy it kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:31

How many are you doing for Rodeo Dance?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:34

Uh 12.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:35

Okay. And so those are 12 of 12. When they're gone, they're gone. Yeah, unless they reorder. Yeah.

unknown 1:06:42

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:42

If you're listening to Radio Dance, you're gonna need to go ahead and place the uh the next order because they're gonna be gone.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:47

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So we're we're hoping for that. You know, it's gonna be really cool. I'm hoping it leads into you know, Bandon or uh uh any of the other dream dream courses would be awesome. You know, I I got we got invited up uh as Larson Golf to the 25th anniversary for Bandon and had a booth and got to play Shorties on opening day and was at the whole event and selling for Simmons and stuff. So you know, I've been been lucky enough to go there a few times. I mean, there's old Max above my head, and the rest of them are across the way. So um, again, not good for an audio podcast. I'm pointing at my background, but you know, um it's been cool to be able to to do these things and and make stuff for these courses and be to go see them and and meet the people and and uh I just I love traveling and playing golf and yeah showing off what I've made.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:42

So if if you had to pick one golf course, you can only choose one to play for the rest of your life, what golf course would that be? Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

Uh let's see a year ago I would have said goat hill. After a trip good now are you talking I'd have to move there and it's I have to take the weather that it has you don't have to move there. But do you you can only play this golf course we can move that golf course to where you live oh but it'd be landman it you put landman in San Diego it's over um yeah I mean anything that Rob Collins has been a part of so I we got I was fortunate enough to go fly into Tennessee go play Sweetens for two days drive all the way up to Homer Nebraska with a bunch of stops in between and then play at the cooler last year and um so I got to play two King Collins courses while meeting and hanging out with them. Yeah uh at both places funny enough and then you know seeing old Dane as it's being built so hoping this year that it's ready and we get to go play old Dane also so anything that he's built I'm in I'm sold um but yeah it would be it'd be Landman for sure that that course is unbelievable. The people made it special too but you know I had to force myself to stop and just look and soak it in and uh there's a video that came out not too long ago I think it was like Sticks or something like that. They made a cool little recap video. Yeah yeah and unbelievable I I forced my wife to watch it and uh I I almost teared up just going like yeah like that's that video is the closest you could get to any kind of not being there in person giving it justice. The way that they shot it was was the closest I think you could get because it's uh it's it is it's heaven on earth out there in in nowhere Nebraska it's uh it's a very very cool place and you know it was before that you know it would have been go it would have been Bandon would have been Chambers Bay or something like that but way a man takes the cake far none. I love that. Yeah. What's your favorite club in the bag right now? My 54 degree wedge has always been my baby um other than that yeah it's just it's the 54 degree wedge.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:05

It's okay it might be the first time anyone's ever said the wedge asked that question. That's a fascinating answer.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:12

Oh I'd I'd rather hit a wedge shot than putt anytime. Really? If it's not a tournament if it's a tournament I'll do the smart play and putt it you know it's six foot inches onto the fringe but I I won't want to um no I I loved I love chipping I love chipping more than anything I'm I'm pretty darn good at it um yeah it's it's the wedge for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:34

I mean I had two eagles from 45 yards out and back to back rounds at goat on number one with that wedge so whoa okay um two different whole locations two different weeks same result was pretty cool so you you would follow the I don't know if you saw the story recently the the Lou Holtz method because he was a member at Augusta National and he passed away in the past week or so but um on number 12 he would lay up and then would chip over Ray's Creek to instead of trying to hit uh a longer shot so that that would be your your plane of attack as well so you could put the 54 in your hand I wouldn't necessarily say that no but I wouldn't be upset if I fell short and had to do that chip.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:22

You know if I if I was ever lucky enough to play Augusta I would probably do that just to say yeah I got chip over Ray's creek you know something like that. But um no I don't think I ever intentionally play a whole two chip okay but I'm never upset if something rolls off the green and is you know five six feet off the green short or whatever I'm not like oh god damn like all right sick I got the chip let's go you know um you don't see too many chip reactions out of me if I make it um it sounds like I'm tooting a horn but I I do it enough to where it's kind of like all right cool next made it normal all right let's go on to the next hole. Yeah you know and everyone freaks out around they're like why are you celebrating like because I I've done it. It's a normal Tuesday. Yeah I expected that to happen you know um it doesn't you know I'm again I'm not trying to toot a horn but a true story is a true story. Right, right um but yeah that's that's definitely my favorite I I pulled that club out of the bag with confidence every single time.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:27

You don't do you ever hit to that yardage intentionally?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:30

Um well I don't full swing that club I don't full swing any of my wedges.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:37

Um you know the longest I would hit that 54 is probably 60 yards.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:43

Oh wow I might need to just talk to you about wedges because I'm gonna order some from you anyway but that that might be a a method that I should put in play.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:52

Yeah like if I've got my my yardages are very different than most people who play it you know like a 3-4 handicap where I'm at like my seven irons a buck fifty stock okay where I'm at I don't hit the ball far my pitching wedge is 120 when I muscle it but I'll use the pitching wedge at 100 yards and kind of stab it into the ground and send it a hundred yards every time like I know where that ball's gonna go and so when it like 60 degree wedge you'll never see me full swing it ever ever ever okay 50 degree at will and 54 is more of like a pitch shot okay than a full swing. It'll be you know six yards if there's wind in my back maybe eighty but and you're stopping it on a dime aren't you? Pretty much yeah or ripping it off the face of the earth depending on the greens you know that happens a goat quite a bit and you hit a green and just see you. Right. You know so um no wedges are I I love hitting wedges more than anything. That's why I put a chipping grain in my backyard.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:55

That's all you know so um I'm glad I was the first one to say that for all you other cowards who like your driver right yeah whatever uh man this has been a lot of fun it's been great to meet you in chat uh and loved hearing about what you've built with Larson golf uh and everything you've got going with on with PowerBuilt. It's uh it's a really cool kind of vocation that you ended up in just by virtue of loving the game of golf and then you get to help build a brand that is something somewhat nostalgic that is putting incredible technology out again and you still have your your your side business of building the persimmons that you love so much. So that's I I envy your your day to day. I'm sure there's stressors like we all have but uh it's got to be refreshing for you to be able to sit down and look at clubs all day and and kind of nerd out uh with something that you love.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:50

Yeah it's it's fun you know sometimes I'll just sit in the garage in the shop and just stare at the persimmon wall and kind of it's fun when people come over Hardenbrook and Colt got to come over and see it and they're like Jesus Christ you know um so yeah I get to pick through and talk about all the cool ones that I have and just I'm very lucky you know I I don't know how I find myself into these spots but just being able to know people and talk to people and hang out and I've I've been very lucky to get to where I'm at and uh not to say it hasn't been hard work but you know it's uh I'm very very fortunate and glad that I've got a really cool wife who you know is supportive of it as much as she might talk shit about it. She you know she's gone out and she took a trip to LA and she came back with like 30 persimmons because she stopped at like seven Goodwills and found them all. So you know she's into it. That's awesome. Yeah and uh her niece is 13. I taught her basically how to refinish one put a sander in her hand and had her grind out like you know she likes to play and so it's it's a lot of fun to be able to do that and and uh and bring out a different side of golf that most people don't want to see until they see it.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:03

You know or I'm too scared to hit it it's pretty I'm like it's a tool. You know, hit it. Yeah um I wouldn't put it in your hands if I didn't think you could hit it. And now there are the people go, can I hit it? I'm like no no you cannot you know but this is not gonna end well. Yeah no you're that's gonna be a nice chunk out of your or I'm gonna have to refinish that whole damn thing because you're dummy mark.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:27

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:28

You know but yeah it they're they're tools not jewels um and uh it's it's a lot of fun um I'm really excited for what's coming up it's uh I don't know if any of you guys are ready for it. Um that's exactly I'm not so right uh yeah so I mean what this is this today's the eighth yeah um in in the future uh that that event and those woods need to be done I'll be in I'll be in a location later that later that month for that event.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:05

Okay. Well now I'm gonna have to pull up the counter and try and do some detective work and figure out what it might be.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:12

Good luck. I don't think it's super public publicized. Okay good to know um but uh yeah it's gonna be super fun I got a lot of really cool things happening this year I got reinvited to the cooler which is phenomenal going to be able to get back to Landman this year um and hang out with everybody. Hopefully you're gonna be there this year Robbie will be there. We'll have to play together. Oh that's for certain and then uh doing the layer up invitational at Portland Oregon it's the Jones Foresters event that's gonna be fun. So actually I when this episode comes out we just played it it's that weekend before this comes out and um yeah my wife wants to go to Sweden so we'll see if if we can make that happen too yeah we would love to make that happen. It's a special play. I need to get back out there. It's so fun um we got to play it poured down rain and it was soppy shitty and then it was the blackjack open and it dried up real quick. It was fun. Yeah oh yeah yeah that event looked great it looked like it was a good last we got brought watered um I saw that video I saw the video of you getting brought watered with a mirror right with a mirror we got brought watered which funny thing the listeners tell me what tell them what that means well let's go with first off Hardenbrook likes to show that video but he doesn't show all the merch he had to buy me from the first round that he lost okay so let that be known it was a one one split we just lost the shittier bet. Yeah you did um the entire wide margin I don't know I got some sick hats out of it it was pretty warm the water is fine okay but so he said brat water and so in my head the entire round we're playing I'm thinking it's literally from the food truck like the hot dog water. Right and I'm thinking that the whole time and so Ryan and I are losing and I'm like it's not gonna be that bad we'll just stink like a hot dog until we can take a shower or whatever. And when we get up there and he starts undoing this hose I'm like what are you doing? He's like this is the brat water I was like oh easy okay whatever you know and Ryan gets sprayed and he throws tease at him and I was like I'm just gonna wear this I'm gonna wear this the whole time just going to stand there. And uh I forgot his name we played with he was our partner in the event too and uh he just sprayed me in the face and then just sprayed me right in the I'm like dude you couldn't like this this wouldn't be bad if you didn't soak my underwear. Right right like everything else would have been fine. Right. I don't care about the shorts I don't care about the shoes and change whatever but you soaked my underwear bro come on so yeah it was a you know it was a badge of honor getting the bratwater I'm not upset about it. Uh I was way more happy about it being hose water than freaking actual hot dog water which is what I thought it was. I swear I thought it was for at least seven holes. I thought it was I thought it was hot dog water. So which would be yeah that would be yeah that would be horrendous yeah that would that would be that would be really bad. So the hose water is not bad. So take that bet and whoever wins it next just soak Hardenbrook to the bone you know um which I mean you you we all know him we love him.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:35

He's a he's a tough one to beat he's a tough cookie to crack but correct and and you you're gonna win or lose that match uh before a peg is in the ground depending on what what has been negotiated in terms of handicaps.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:48

Yep there's that and then well I don't whenever I play a ratch regardless I don't I hate handicaps. I think handicaps are so silly I understand them for certain things but like if I'm playing you I'm playing you I'm not playing your strokes so like my father in law he's always like you're gonna give me strokes like no I'm not giving you anything not a chance because if you were to win even with your 15 strokes I would never hear the end of it when I actually beat you by 12 strokes in reality. Right like no and I don't want you to give me your strokes either I'm not getting many but I don't want them. I don't want them you know but that's just me being a snob of golf but you know they have their place. I I get it it makes sense it just in a perfect world I think it should be mono mono but you know when you're you got a five and a 20 playing each other it's not as fun because the five's gonna win every time you know it it it has its place.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:47

Yeah agreed and that's what really grinds my gears Peter Griffin Trevor thank you for taking time to come on the show this has been this has been a lot of fun um I look forward to seeing it to cooler uh later this year and of course keeping up with all your exciting news with Larson Golf um and of course everything you're doing with PowerBuilt um I can't wait to see the news of your other partnership that's gonna be coming out relatively soon. So we will be watching for that but thanks for taking time to come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:18

Yeah man thanks for having me it was fun um always happy to come on if you need something looking forward to making the season two shirt. You're gonna be on it um that's I'm excited for that the season one shirt was awesome um you know I've been peeking through the episodes and and listening and uh you know next one's gonna be listening to myself talk which is going to be fairly normal.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:42

So well I hope you enjoyed it's been great chatting with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:45

Yeah likewise man enjoy it and um yeah excited for it to come out.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:50

Yeah well for Trevor Larson I'm Josh Decker and this has been another episode of Off the Deck. Yeeha brother