Off the Deck
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Off the Deck
Strikers Forge with George Roy
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In this episode, George Roy shares his innovative approach to golf training, blending neurophysiology, adaptive learning, and engaging practice environments to grow the game and develop skills at all levels.
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Driver off the deck for Cory Connor. Here's driver off the deck. Victor Hoplin. So the driver off the deck. I think you would try this, right? Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00You have to put your foot on the gas. You pull out the driver off the deck and you put it on the green all the way up the hill.
unknownDon't stop, don't stop.
SPEAKER_02Welcome back to another episode of Off the Deck. Uh, really excited to chat with Mr. George Roy today. But before we get into that, the show is now sponsored by Itica Golf. I'm rocking the Sebastian hoodie today. Love what every everything that they are doing over at Itica Golf. That is Id a K A.gov to check out their new spring line and make sure you use OTD25 for 25% off your order. Uh and really appreciate Steve Peering and everyone over at Itica supporting our show. Mr. Roy, welcome to Off the Deck.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thanks for having me, Joshua. I uh I really appreciate being on here with you guys and getting to kind of share my story and where I'm headed, what we're doing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, which I want to get into all of that. Um, but first tell people who you are, where you are, and then we can dive into all the things strikers forge and everything that is going on uh at your facility.
SPEAKER_01Okay, awesome. Yeah, so I'm a PGA professional. Uh been a PGA professional since uh actually finished school in 2013 and got my class A membership in 2014. Uh going through the PGM program. I don't know if you guys are familiar with that. Um, I had the opportunity to go down to Dallas, Texas and work at the Hank Haney Ranch for a little while and deal with hundreds of juniors through summer camps and stuff. Got to shadow a lot of really good coaches, got to basically build my coaching foundation on Hank's um philosophy of neutrality, right? Like we see, you know, in modern culture, everybody's always trying to re-you know develop or or rediscover something new when in reality, neutrality is where where the fruit is for most of us. So it was a great foundation uh for my coaching and teaching. And then after that, uh I went back to, I'm from originally from Southern Maryland, outside of DC. And uh I wanted to do something to give back. And so I got tied in with Jim Estes. Uh, he's a PGA professional up in the DC area. He's also a co-founder of the Salute Military Golf Association. So I come from a military background, family military background. Um, you know, our family has served in basically every branch. My my grandfather was actually the commanding officer in the Coast Guard and Kodiak Island. So the American patriotism is very, it's something we're very proud of, right? And and after I learned how to teach, I wanted to be able to give back. I I had kind of cleaned my life up a little bit by the time I got to college, okay? Grew up a little bit, stopped being crazy. And uh that was one of the things that I wanted to offer. I wanted to get involved, and so got involved with them and we did rehabilitative golf with wounded veterans that were going with uh through what's called a WTU. It's a warrior transition unit. Um, so excuse me. At the time, guys were still coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan with severe debilitating injuries, and we used golf as not only a mental re-ab program, but also one for physical rehabilitation. And so that kind of changed my coaching theory, right? So I went from Hank Haney, which was a very, we're looking for neutrality, to this adaptive style of golf where I've got a double amputee in front of me, or I've got a guy who's been hit by an IED and he's got six or seven fuse ver uh fuse vertebrae, or we're missing fingers or a hand, right? And so now I'm totally unequipped based on what my current standing was, you know. I was totally unequipped to be able to help those guys, so I thought. And now we're starting to see the fruit of what I kind of got into 10 years ago, which is the matchups, right? You hear you hear coaches talking about swing your swing now, and there's definitely some truth to that. But at the end of the day, we got to make sure that that matchup is optimizing both physics and geometry so that we can play our best golf. Okay. And so after getting into the adaptive side of the golf, I started, I started to notice that not only could these guys that, you know, are missing limbs or are on prosthetics or are in wheelchairs, not only can they develop skill, but once they start to develop skill, it actually develops at a very rapid rate. And I couldn't figure it out, it's almost like superhuman type development compared to the average golfers that I was used to working with. And so I develop, like I started to dive into the white papers a little bit. And when something like that happens, right? Like let's let's just say you lose an arm, okay? The portion of that brain, right? The the synapses and everything in your brain that used to be dedicated to that function and that movement are now actually redirected, okay? And your brain actually changes both in form and function, meaning there's physical changes and functional changes that can be tracked, right? Yeah, it's wild. So these guys that are already going through these types of rehabilitative programs essentially are are already conditioned to that type of development. So when we get into the skill development side of something, they can actually acquire those skills at a very quick rate. And I it didn't quite make sense at the time, but then I started looking into um, you know, some sports psychology stuff and and neurophysiology and stuff. And when you see how the brain actually develops, when we create, and actually this has been recorded now. If you've ever, there's a video of two neurons actually creating a synapse under like an electromatic magnetic microscope, and the synapses actually kind of go together and then like bang, they click, and now we've got that new neural connection. Okay. So I wanted to find out how could I not only develop skill, but optimize the training that I was doing to help develop those synapses quicker and stronger, right? I want them to not only get better, but get better in a bigger way faster. And so I started looking into adaptive learning models, right? It's it's a model for kids, pretty, pretty standard stuff. You test, you form your baseline, you um, you you figure kind of like a SWOT analysis, right? You figure out where you implement, where they're at, where's our weakness, and then we implement some type of change and then we test again. And it's just a cycle after a cycle after a cycle. And the thing that I have found over the years is that it's not necessarily the drills that you're doing or the things that you're working on or the technique that you're attempting to develop. It's how are you framing the training environment? Okay. And I hear a lot of coaches talking about, oh, I want my kids to succeed. I used to want to be succeed too, but now I want to facilitate failure. Okay. Now I want them to succeed by learning how to overcome not just failure, but the right type of failure framed in the right way at exactly the right time. Okay. And you'll see block versus random practice. I'm sure you guys are are familiar with those terms. Have you have you ever heard of that?
SPEAKER_02I don't know that I am. What what is that?
SPEAKER_01So blocked practice is essentially like if you were to lay down a putting mirror on a 10-foot putt and you're looking to do technical development, right? We're working on refining our technique. We hit the same shot over and over and over and over and over again, right? Okay, randomized practice would be completely different. It would be me having you hit a 10-foot putt here and then maybe hitting a chip from over here, and then maybe giving you another putt, but with a different line, different speed, different target. And so these were the types of things that I started to do with my product, the low zone. It's a short game training system uh for coaches that that are out there listening to this. String drills, survey tape drills. I'm sure you've seen coaches use that stuff for their junior camps. It's a pain in the butt. Okay. Especially if you got a bunch of kids in your in your camp. You're setting up multiple locations, you're out there for 45 minutes for an hour or an hour doing your different drill stations and setup. And a lot of the times the string, once it's pulled up, man, it's into a tangled nest, no matter how clean you try and put it away. Right. And the flagging tape is done. And so I created the low zone. So I had a product that I could place down very quickly, use it for different drills and different configurations. And um, we started selling that in 2016, I think. Okay. 2016, I went to the PGA show and launched down there, and then got hooked up with um golf around the world at the time was the name of the company. It was Dr. Gary Wyron's company. It's now golftrainingAids.com. Um, but got to sell some product with them for a little while. And uh that was really cool. He's the guy that wrote the PGA's teaching manual. So super neat experience for me. Great people, him and his wife both just salt of the earth, top shelf people.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but it was pretty cool to be there, you know, working hand in hand and having this. Uh, this guy's a Hall of Fame instructor, you know, and and he's using my product and enjoying my product and all those things.
SPEAKER_02So, did you develop this while you were in Maryland?
SPEAKER_01I did. I actually developed it while I was in college, and then it went through a couple of iterations. Yeah, once I realized that I could uh I could change coloring to to enable it to do these different configurations. That was on that was you know, patenting and all that stuff. And so I sold product into uh I think we're at 14 countries. Uh it's being used with uh a couple national teams. Um I've had the opportunity to coach a couple guys that have gone on to represent the U.S. teams in in that military, wounded military field. You know, I've gotten to watch one of my guys tee off in front of the president with his service dog right there. Super cool, got the caddy for him. Um that was actually down at Trinity Forest. I get to meet Ben Crenshaw and uh and the shark and Ricky Fowler and Jimmy Walker and all those guys, and I'm walking around with a bib with my boy's name on the back. It was super neat. Um, but yeah, so after all that, we were in Florida. I was teaching out of uh two courses at the time, uh one in Palm Coast and one in uh St. Augustine. And with the product rolling out and doing everything myself, it just kind of burned out. And uh, we had recently refinished our house, and my wife and I were like, look, we need to slow down a little bit. We need to, you know, do something a little different. So in 2020, we moved out here to Tennessee to homestead with our kids, and COVID happened and all that nonsense. And uh, you know, I actually thought I was done with golf after COVID. I was gonna just kind of crawl into a hole here. I got hooked on timber framing out here as a homesteader, so I was gonna be a pioneer, right? I'm still gonna get to do that. I'm gonna eventually eventually build a barn down there, timber frame barn. Um, but yeah, uh there was a golf course here in town that um was struggling, and I tried to get my foot in the door, could never get a hold of the owner and stuff. And eventually our county lost the only golf course here, which was a former golf digest top 100. And uh, you know, if you're familiar with this area, you know, once you're in this valley here, you're kind of in a little vacuum, right? There's not a lot in a lot for our kids to access in terms of recreation. There's definitely no golf. And so my wife was ready for a change and she was ready to leave her job. I said, okay, well, like let's let's create a golf academy. Like, I know, I know this, I'm damn good at it. I can reimagine what everybody thinks a driving range is supposed to be. Not only build a driving range facility, but build one that incorporates all of this stuff that I know about skill development, all of this stuff that I know about different types of variability training and the adaptive learning model. And uh, so yeah, I started cutting trees down in January of last year. I have gotten to run a bulldozer by myself now for the first time. It was so dope. Like I loved that. And uh yeah, we it's it's it's neat. I don't know, uh, I don't know how much Ryan has told you about the facility here, but it's basically a shot grid. If you were to imagine the the average driving range, I would kind of compare it to a an indoor shooting range if you shoot guns, right? Yeah, yeah. You're kind of in your lane and you might have one or two targets down that lane, and there's not a whole lot of variability, there's not a whole lot of cognitive activity going on because you're not being challenged, right? And then you come to my place, which is like the precision rifle range. Okay, I've got 56 targets inside of 200 yards. That is nuts. Yeah, dude, it's dope. It's dope. Well, the really cool thing is it's all based off of statistics, too. So I won't get totally into that secret side of it, but it sets up like a grid, and there are points of standard deviation based on target placement. There's elevation change from level to 35 feet in the air. So now we're talking about effective slope ranges, right? And uh there's there, it's we've got it walled out with logs to kind of do that PB die, like gives depth perception, but it also creates an optical illusion. Uh the targets are the size of postage stamps. So if you're hitting targets out here, you can go play golf anywhere successfully. You know, uh, if I could just get my kids that are here to understand how important a good wedge game is and to stop trying to hit, you know, bombs out there, like that's it. So that was the the purpose behind this facility. It's like, how do I engage the student? How do I educate the student? And how can I empower them through this facility and my programming? So yeah, it's been uh like I told you in the pre-call, it's been it's been kind of tough, right? Like I'm in the middle of nowhere doing something completely new with no market, you know, and uh it's going okay. It's going okay, man. I'm blessed, I'm blessed to be able to do it. You know, everything has got its struggles when you first start out, but it's the typical entrepreneurial process. Gotta grind it out for a little while, and eventually, once you're there, you're there, you know, just gotta keep going.
SPEAKER_02So So what what all did you take from working with the the the guys, the wounded warriors in Maryland? I'm sure there's some of that that you're leaning on or or has helped kind of build this foundation for this now. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, oh yeah. And I I would think that the the the biggest like bullet point, right? If I were just to give you a one bullet point, you are capable of anything. You're capable of anything. Okay. Uh I think I can speak for myself, and that's the hardest things that I've ever had to overcome in my life are what pushed me to be the next level and better. Right. The things that I thought were gonna break me, made me stronger, gave me more grit, right? And I think that that if I can facilitate that type of thing, especially in kids, um, like if I if I can get a kid to understand that that working towards overcoming the challenge is the real goal and not the result, they're capable of anything, right? Anything, right? And that's actually one of the things. So we have a a champion's mindset pledge that the kids have to sign over here when they join. Okay. And champion is an acronym, right? So we've got courage, humility, accountability, motivation, uh, perseverance, integrity, ownership, and then nobility, right? And my thing at the beginning of this is that winning is not what makes you a champion. It's simply the byproduct of being one. Okay. And I want the kids to understand that when a coach tells you that it's the culture of a program that separates a program and it separates the athletes within that 100%.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01100%. I don't care what radar you got. I don't care if you got pressure mats. I don't care what tools you have as an academy or an instructor. If you do not have culture there and you do not have buy-in to that culture, your kids are not going to be what they could be, right? Like you have got to. And that's a that's another thing that that I think a lot of people don't understand is when we're setting our goals, and we talked about me facilitating failure. Everybody sets goals they know they can hit. Right. And so because they set, yeah, right. Unrealistic goals. Okay. I want unrealistic goals and realistic stepping stones. Okay. That's that's the strategy, is like shoot for the stars and give yourself a realistic pathway as you shoot for those stars.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, to get there. Right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. So that's a big thing. It's called it's not just the golf here. It's it's the culture, it's the recreation, and the big thing is the community, man. So like that's that's really what I want. I want to be dealing, I don't want to be dealing with the the public golfer off of the street who wants to come and get a swing lesson and get fixed. I want to deal with the people who are interested in skill development and understand that it's a pathway, right? It's a process. Like, you're not gonna go get a Planet Fitness Gym membership, lift dumbbells one time, eat some pizza, and think you're now in shape.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Right. But that's the equivalent of the hour-long swing lesson. It's like, fix me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Right. I was I was playing with a teacher not too long ago who he was telling me about someone who just asked for a lesson and he's like, Yeah, and I know that guy wanted to get the lesson just because it was kind of in vogue, and that he thought he was the cool thing to do to come get a lesson from him. But he's like, and he went on to tell me, he's like, Yeah, he's like, and I know that guy's not doing anything that I told him. And I'm like, it's exactly what you just said. Like, yeah, unless you're really committed to it, it's it to be frank, it's a waste of money. Like, you've got to buy into the process. And that's what I wanted to get at is a lot of the things that that you're doing there. Uh how how do you refer what do you call the range? Do you call it striker's forge?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's so George Roy Golf is the is me, right? And then with the the facility, we refer to it as striker's forge, right? It's like the anvil, right? That's the kind of the analogy that I've put together for them. Is like, if you were gonna beat a blade, right, and refine your blade, it's blow after blow, intense heat, power of pressure, right? Like those are the things like steel sharpened steel, right? Iron to iron, right? Like, and you've got to buy into that. And that's why I've got it modeled the way I do. It's not just now I can give you a single lesson, right? But you're gonna pay the premium. You're gonna pay my premium hourly rate. It actually costs less right now to become a member at the facility. And for a month, you get, you know, an individual lesson plus unlimited use of the facility plus virtual coaching, or you can get four group sessions, or you can get both, right? So there's pillars to it. Um, you know, obviously as a teacher, I'm looking to engage, to educate, and to empower, right? But there, the the training side of it, there has to be pillars as well. So the individual instruction gives me the opportunity to work on technical development. Our group sessions are are very much framed in a skill development type thing where we're practicing, but then they end up in a competitive environment. So we're getting the skill and a little bit of pressure involved. There's that second pillar. Uh the third pillar is obviously their individual practice when they can come out here and do it on their own. Exploration, that that's a huge thing. Okay. You have got when when it comes to applying what any coach gives you, you've got to be able to explore it with some autonomy. Okay. It's not just about the the aesthetic of how what your move looks like. Uh it's not about the positions, right? Like you are attempting to do things slightly different when you're out here in a different way. Um I don't know if that quite makes sense. Uh if I were to kind of sum it up, it would be like the industry standard is to work on technique, technique, technique, technique, and then transfer it into skill development. I've flipped it. Okay, so I'm working on skill development in a myriad of ways that actually are the vehicle for the technical development, right?
SPEAKER_02So like the the the short game ramps. Yeah, that stuff is so cool. So for the listeners, and I don't want to tell your story, but tell the listeners your short game ramps, because what what you just said, I was like, oh yeah, I was like, you think of a driving range, I'm gonna have flat lies, and I'm just hitting it to uh basically a field, and there's there's pins out there at set yardages, and that's it. And you have done so much more interactively, but I've also created environments that are much more realistic to what you see on the golf course. So so talk about your short game ramps.
SPEAKER_01You just hit the nail on the head. Like when it comes to training, we have to simulate the environment. Yeah, like yes, there is value to hitting into a net or into a screen with a launch monitor and stuff like that. But even there, you're only hitting at the same line, the same target line every time. It's just that the, you know what I mean, the targeting is done by way of simulation. So the ramps out here, what we've done is we've got three and a half inch ramps. Um, and what it does is it equates to about a four degree slope. And uh the short game is my specialty. I love, you know, potting anything wedges, anything ball striking, you know what I mean? 200 yards and in, like I said, my facility um is it's it's about shot making. It's not just about swinging the club, it's about shot making. And when we get onto the course, we are going to see variability in turf, variability in lie, variability in distance of shot, variability in direction of shot. And these are all elements, and there's more than that, you know, you wind, all that good stuff. Target change. Um, we don't see players simulate any of that on the average driving range.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. You know, none at all.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_01Now, one of my training matrix has always been, you know, to implement that even at a regular driving range, is you can like grab a golf card, a scorecard from your favorite club, right? And go play holes, right? Like if hole number one is a 320-yard par four with a narrow shoot and a forced layup, hit your yardage, pull another club based on what you how well you hit that first one and and simulate that golf hole. See what you would have done. Would I have made par, or did I hit a bad wedge, and maybe it's more of a bogey situation. Track that through the car because now what we're doing is we're we're stimulating a cognitive, right? A cognitive cognition, basically, the brain activity. Okay. That's not present on the regular driving range. The average Joe is out there ball after ball after ball.
SPEAKER_02Just hammering them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like belt fed machine gun. Hunter balls are gone in 40 minutes, maybe, if it takes that long. Um, you know, and so. There's no, it's it's just it's a you're in that flow state while practicing. So there's no development going on at all. And if there is development going on, a lot of times it's actually a bad habit that's forming, or you're developing a compensation for something, right? Like if I hit five balls at the same target over and over and over again, eventually I'm gonna figure out a way to make it work. Okay. Is that optimal? Probably not. Okay. So what I'd want to do is I want them going through that cognition hardcore. I want them thinking, problem solving, analyzing, doing all those things before they ever get over to the ball, right? Because again, that's what that's where that neurophysiophysiology is going to be developed, man. That's where we're learning to develop new synapses. And the more we do that, the stronger those synapses get. So um, you know, there's there's a lot of a lot to it. Um if I were to just sum up one one or two words, what I do, it's uh adaptation and variability, right? Like just like the ramps, okay? So the wedge combine, get back to that. I just went on a big long circle. Um, four degree ramps, and it we did it for our men's group most recently. We do a wedge combine. I've got six pads down there, six bays, six men, right? The first bay is a flat lie. The second bay will be downhill, usually, the third uh bay will be an above hill uh above foot lie. The fourth bay will be a below the foot lie, and then the last one will be an uphill lie, and then another flat lie, but usually with a lob net. We have a limbo, a lofty limbo, is what I call it, where the kids I can I can raise the bar instead of lowering it like limbo. I have a net and I raise it six inches by six inches by six inches, and it's like four feet in front of them. So we're out there trying to get flop shots over the scene. That's awesome. Yeah, to Pokemon too, right? So we got Pokemon gongs out there, right? So we got the Pokemon going on, man.
SPEAKER_02I was gonna ask you about the Pokemon relay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So the Pokemon relay is legit. Uh so I will bring down a garbage can of balls and I'll stick it about 20 or 30 feet behind the T line. The kids get one ball at a time, right? Because I want gapping in between the reps, okay? That's a big that's a big thing for any practice. You want some gapping so that you've got the opportunity to analyze what just happened. Again, we're we're developing that cognition. Um, but yeah, so they each get one ball, they hit a shot trying to hit a Pokemon. They have to run back to the garbage can as fast as they can before they can hit their next ball. And and each shot has to come within a proximity of the Pokemon, right? So the front three are Charmander, Squirtle, and Balbasaur, like the original starter Pokemon. And then at the end at 30 yards, we've got Charizard and Venusaur and Blastoise, right? So they've got to catch their starter Pokemon with a close proximity shot. Then the second level at 20 yards, they've got to hit a close proximity shot to defeat their challenging Pokemon. And then if they get the third one, they get the evolution stage, right? But there's kids running everywhere. And they're having a blast. Oh, dude, it's dope. Yeah, it's dope. It's a really good time. They really enjoy it.
SPEAKER_02So so what I'm uh fascinated in so many ways by this conversation. What is your background for all of this neurological study and and everything?
SPEAKER_01Independent study. Do what's independent, just independent study of white papers, you know, following. I've got some really great colleagues that are in that space.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, a really good book to read. And actually, I'll give you two of them. There's a book called Peak by Anders Ericsson. Uh, he is one of the most successful sports psychologists out there. It's uh uh I can't remember exactly what the subtitle is, but it's I think it's something like the new science of mastering skill or something like that. Fascinating stuff. Fascinating stuff. It's on intentional and deliberate practice. He goes into all these different fields of people that are like unbelievably, you know, unbelievable performers in their craft field, yeah, skill, whatever it is. And then another one that's really good is by a buddy of mine, uh Adam Young. Adam Young's practice manual is phenomenal. It's it's a great, great insight into how to practice the differences between skill and technique, right? Like we know the skill is how well you get something done, and technique is how you get it done. And just because you've got I've seen a lot of really good golf shots hit really shitty shots. Sorry. Yeah. I don't know if I if I can boot that out. All right, cool. Uh yeah. So I mean, it's not again, and that's the culture that that we kind of have to break down a little bit is it's not always about biomechanics, it's not always about the technique, it's definitely not always about the aesthetics, it's about the matchups, the physics, and the geometry. I mean, the the ball does not know what my body's doing, only the club does, right? And so when we get impact focused, which is what I do out here, I'm like if I was gonna teach you how to use a hammer, right? I wouldn't put you on one block of wood and one and I and then give you a bag of nails and have you hit them all into the same surface, right? Like if I want you to be a builder, I'm gonna give you that box of nails and that hammer and I'm gonna have you building stuff. And that's how you're gonna develop your swinging of the hammer. Same thing here with the golf club. We're impact focused, we're learning how to analyze ball flight, and we're using those things to kind of self-organize, not totally, because I'm there to guide them and keep them in the rails. And if I see something that is obvious that I know can, you know, what I call the meats and potatoes, it's a um, it's an approach to going after the core issue, but with the the slightest change possible so that we don't disrupt that neural pathway that we were talking about, right? Because the minute you have to try and do something different is when we interfere with that signal. That's that's where we get out of our flow state. Okay. So yeah, lots of studies there. Um, white papers. I started getting into white papers specifically in terms of uh skill development and micro variability, right? And it's not like, for instance, if I were to take you out with a wedge and I'd say hit 20 yards, 50 yards, 75 yards, right? You'd be able to do that fairly easily, right? And I would kind of compare that.
SPEAKER_02Maybe right now, no.
SPEAKER_01I know a guy. I know a guy. Um, so if if if you've got it, are you familiar with like music? Are you a musical talented guy at all?
SPEAKER_02Uh I mean, I'm familiar with music. I can't read music. I like music.
SPEAKER_01Scales, normal scales, basic scales, do ring. Huh? Okay. So like you like your normal scares where you scales where you go note by note. Okay. Do re me fossil. Okay. Okay. So that's how I would kind of compare uh that normal progression of 20 to 50 to 70, right? Large gaps, right? Okay. What I want to do is I want you to be able to scale pitch pitch perfect. So we're not only talking about do re me, right? We're talking about the majors, the minors, the off-keys, the flats, right? Like now we're breaking those bigger scales down into even finer scales.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01So if you can't hit now, you could feel the difference between 20, 50, and 70. Sure. You might not be able to perform there, but could you feel the difference between 10, 20, 30, 30, 40, 50? Like if we break it down into five-yard increments or one yard increments, right? So, like, I want them scaling in the finest, the finest amounts of variability as possible because that's what's really gonna have to key them in. It's easy to to to feel and adjust to the big change, right? Yeah, I want to fine-tune them to the small, the really, really nitty-gritty stuff. So uh the other thing I don't fascinating. It's fascinating. It's cool. I'm a big dummy, you know what I mean? I don't I don't come off as a smart guy, but there's a whole lot of thought that goes into everything. I told you, mad max meets mad scientists is what's going on.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it sounds like you're a verocious reader.
SPEAKER_01Um well, yeah. So I also study law and like global monetary policy, and like I'm into lots of nerdy stuff. I want to know what's going on. I like a what did you go to college for? Uh so PGA, the business management, and then I'm on hospitality. And I actually owned my own businesses before that. So I am uh I'm adept at picking up skills very, very quickly. I am ADD, ADHD through the roof. So when I get obsessive over something, like I'm crushing it. Like you you've got no chance of keeping up until I get bored. Once I get bored, then you might catch up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh I forgot to tell you one of the other cool things about my facility. I don't know if Ryan mentioned this to you, was that it actually also serves as like a pitch and putting. So we actually go out onto the range where where we have those synthetic target greens, yeah. Um, those actually serve as tea boxes too. So we'll go out there and hit from green to green to green, up and down the hill, back and forth and across. Okay. Now, the really cool part about that is when I get this putting green done, we'll be able to play a full nine holes out there from the different target green locations into the synthetic green. So it's like, again, I mean, it's it's kind of like a all-in-one skill development dream, right? For from from my perspective, anyway. So can you hit driver out there or no? Yeah, you can. So I've got I've got targets to 200, and then there's a buffer zone that gets up about to about to 240, I think is where it's at, and it's uphill, so it's kind of catches them. Yeah. Uh for them for the men, if you can keep it on the range, like go ahead and hit driver. If you can't keep it on the range, we have something called a swear jar. Okay. And the swear jar is uh, I actually haven't put it down there yet. I've been I've been threatening to do it for a while now, and it's gonna happen. Um, but for every ball that you hit, either across the road or into the woods somewhere, if I got to go chase it, you got to put a dollar in the swear jar. Okay. Now there's a reason to that, right? The kids know this. They the kids can either give me push-ups or a dollar. Okay. All right. But it's it what it does is it gives them, it simulates that accountability that they would have on the golf course.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right. Like if they lose their ball on the course, who's paying for that ball? Right. So now there's implications to taking every shot. Every shot's got a little bit of pressure on it, right? Whether we're doing our skill development stuff or not. So um, and it's also an accountability thing, you know what I mean? Like the honor system, again, culture. I want them to have the right types of character. Yeah, if I can, if I can develop a good character and kids, man, like they can go do anything, whether it's golf or not.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, so I guess you have to hand pick then.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's a yeah. It takes about an hour and a half to pick. Yeah, it's it's a task. Okay. So my son and I usually go do it, but I again, we're on my homestead, right? Like we bought this property to homestead, so we've got goats and chickens and ducks and all that stuff, and my kids are here. And so we'll go down as a family and turn the radio on early in the morning, and we're down there for an hour and a half up and down the hill, picking and everything, and it's cool. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, at least for a little while. And my son will inevitably always starts to complain, right? When we're about to finish, but it's okay. We're still getting good family time, you know? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So so you what you started this, you said in 20 what year did you open?
SPEAKER_012025 is actually so in in six months, we deforested, mulched, sculpted the land, planted the seed, targets out, pads up and tea line up, all within the first six months. And then we finally, well, let's see, seven months. We opened August 15th of last year. So not only did I build out in the middle of nowhere with no market and no network. I also did it at the end of the golf season heading straight into winter. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02So what's so how's it how's it been just growing? I guess you call it a membership. What do you what how do you refer to your clients?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so members. Yeah, we were set up as a PMA. Uh, it's it's an unincorporated PMA. It's all done through private contract. Um, basically, they pay me for my time on a regular basis, and then as a benefit, as long as they're not doing anything stupid, they've got full access to the range as long as it's outside of class hours.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, now we've got different tiers of membership. Again, my entry level is either a private lesson or the four group sessions, plus the use, plus virtual. And then we can combine those things depending on the intensity of uh training that the the golfers looking to do. Like I've got one that's um, I call it the Master Smith. I'm actually running a promo right now. So if your listeners are in the area, we're doing a bump up promo from our blacksmith membership to our Mastersmith membership. And okay, so for $225 a month, you get bi-weekly individual instruction. You get uh the four group sessions with your peers. Okay, we've got you're in a peer group, it's not like it's just an open session where you'll be, you know, kids and like I'm let you be with your your your peers, not only in age and and everything, but also in skills. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and then uh obviously the virtual coaching and the unlimited use. So again, the idea is that if you are a member here, like and you're bought in, you realize that you have to hit every one of those pillars, right? We have to hit the technical development, we have to hit the skill development, we have to have our autonomous exploration. And then the fourth pillar for what we do with the members is testing. We do on course testing. So once a month we do a short game shootout, okay, and basically I have the course set up um as par threes, nine holes par threes that range in differences in yardage uh from the flag. So level one, um 25 to 50 yard range, uh, but it's all variability again. Like, so when I set a T up, it's not gonna be just in the middle of the fairway at 25 yards. You could be in the middle of the year. It's not gonna be flat either, is it? No, not at all. Not at all. And the chances are you're gonna have to deal with turf too, right? So maybe, maybe downhill and above the foot over a bunker to a short-sided pin from 20 yards, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We actually just had a testing session, and I had a couple of my high schoolers, they were real cocky, right? I had I have one kid that uh he's been with me for about six months, just started getting into competitive golf last year, and he's actually doing really well. He's a good kid, very disciplined, he's smart. Um, but he's he's started to get a little cocky, right? Like that golfer cocky that we all know that you kind of have to be to be successful. And uh he started to shoot under par occasionally on nine holes. And so I asked him last before we test, I said, You gonna be able to pass this time? Because they got to shoot 27 to pass and level up to the next yardage. And he said, Man, I could shoot under par on nine. I better be able to shoot 27. I said, Okay, I just remind you, like, you know what you're dealing with here. Like, I'm gonna go out there and trick it out. He shot shot 29. So from 25 to 50 yards, he shot 29. It is not an easy task. No, it's not an easy task. No, no, no. Um, and it's set up that way, right? I want it to be fun. Again, I want it to be realistic, but I want it to be them overcoming a failure, right? Like I don't want them going into it like that thinking, oh, I got this. I want them knowing very seriously that they're gonna have to perform at a high level, just like they're gonna feel like when they're on a golf course in a competitive environment.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01All right. So that simulates that competitive environment type of it. And that's my fourth pillar there. Um, but yeah, it's it's been good. Uh we've got we've got quite a few kids that are coming up that that are starting to look really, really good. I've got a couple young ones that are probably gonna be pretty damn good by the time they get into middle school or high school. Um when I say pretty damn good, I mean like elite type good. They love to practice, right? Like, and that's the Ryan's son, Ryan's son's one of them. He has no idea how good he is, and the kid just genuinely loves to practice and loves to challenge himself. Those two variables right there, man. If I can get a kid to buy into something and engage themselves where they like to practice, and they can embrace the challenge, done deal. Yeah, done deal, right? And that goes for everybody, not just kids, man. Like, you know, even me at 42 years old, I've got to push myself to break through barriers all the time, you know. Like this has been a huge one for me. I tell all my kids we're forged in adversity, and I'm dealing with the same adversity they're dealing with, just shaped in a different form. Yeah, different way. So you recently blessed to be tested, you know what I mean? I'm blessed to be tested.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, for sure. So you recently had someone come to you who had only hit 45 golf balls in their life. Yes, yes, and you had, I think, is it three months to get them ready for a bachelor party?
SPEAKER_01He's going to a bachelor party in July. And uh he's an athlete, no, not baseball or anything like that. So, you know, he I think he played maybe a little bit of baseball when he was really young, but mostly basketball. And uh, I got him out here, and and that is going to be the challenge. I want to see if if if this works, if I can get him down into the 90s, just into the 90s, in three months, I think I can set some light bulbs off in people, right? Yeah. And the big thing is is like this is kind of the the first taste. I mean, yes, it's it's it's my happy place, it's where I want to be, but this is the first taste of this type of facility design, right? And so my next move, like, I would love to be able to find a course architect or uh a designer, uh golf course designer that would buy into the training side of this and implement it into a training facility at a club. That's the next step. Because I'm top golf watch your ass, like because the forge, right? The forge is where it's at, right? That's kind of where I'm at. You know what I mean? And I don't have to, I don't have to charge you $400 for alcohol and a couple bays for a couple hours. You know what I mean? Like that's the whole thing. If I wanted to be able to offer world-class training at a friendly neighborhood price, you know, that's probably sounds stupid to a lot of the business people out there, but again, I'm not out here to be rich. I'm not here to develop community. I'm out here to help golfers play better. I'm out here to grow the game.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, and I want the practice and the training to be just as much fun as teeing it up. You know, that's the big thing.
SPEAKER_02Which that's I and I am people ask me all the time, like, well, where do you practice? Because I play most of my golf. Uh, wherever I have a friend who's a member and and uh sometimes public tracks, I don't practice a lot. I'm not because kind of like you've said, I don't have I don't know how to practice with a purpose. That's not something that I do very well. I don't want to go stand on the range and bang a bucket of balls. That does nothing to interest me at all. Like that sounds miserable, actually. Um I'm thinking about putting a putting green in at my house because I love to putt, and that's that's uh casual enough that I could have some people over, we can have the game on and we can be putting, but I I do not know how to practice with a purpose, and I think that's it's a detriment to my own golf game. Um and I think that's largely because I'm not entertained like I would be at your range, because that having goals to accomplish, other than just, hey, let's try and hit the same wedge straight 125 yards 10 times in a row, that that does nothing for me. But if I know I've got to catch Charizard, like the that could be a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it's dude, it's a blast. And then we so we've actually got a couple shots. Like I left one pine tree up, it's at about 70 yards, 65, 70 yards, and it kind of creates a tunnel on the left side to a couple of the gongs and blocks off. Like I've got I've got one one green that's at 100 yards and plays one 121, 35 feet up on top of some boulders, right? And one of my favorite shots is to make them go down to the end of the T uh the right side of the T range, hit it around this pine tree on the left and curve it with a five-iron all the way to the 121, right? Wow. So again, it's not, yeah, it's a wildly crazy shot. It's a ton of bend into the ball, which you have never seen on a driving range.
SPEAKER_02That does not exist on just a regular driving range.
SPEAKER_01No, no. You know why the average driving range exists legitimately? Why? Ease of maintenance. Ease of maintenance. They want to be able to pick it quickly, they want to be able to cut it quickly. My my my model does not do that, right? Like my model creates work, but again, it's so worth it for the for the training environment that it creates. I mean, it's second to none, in in my opinion. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So for anybody that's in the uh Sequachi Valley area, I guess you're what, uh west of Chattanooga by how far?
SPEAKER_01I am so I'm almost right on the backside of Signal Mountain. Depending on where you're at in Chattanooga, like if you're in the Hickson area, you know, the west side Chattanooga, kind of north side of Daisy, that kind of area, like 25-30 minutes. If you are over on the east side of Chattanooga, let's say like um Harrison, that area, I've got a couple members that come over here from there. Uh, I think it takes them about 50 minutes. Okay. So it's not terrible as long as you get the traffic at the right time. I mean, I'm sure you know if you well, 24 is a nightmare from what's going on.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, 24 is a disaster.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So even coming over the mountain can be, though. Uh, and that's that's really the big thing. You know, just like we don't want to go over the mountain to do stuff with our kids unless we absolutely have to, they don't want to come over here to do stuff unless they absolutely have to. Now, you don't have to come see me, but you're not going to experience a training environment or a professional that'll coach you anywhere else like I will. You know, there are a lot of great coaches out there, but I do what I do better than anybody, you know, and I stand by that.
SPEAKER_02The virtual coaching you do, is that something that you've got still people that you've worked with from even your time in Maryland and in Florida that keep in touch with you to send you videos? Are you still doing anything?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so the one that so I stopped doing the third party stuff. Um, I was on skill list for a little while. And uh one, I don't like the analysis software. Um, two, I don't like being grouped up with a bunch of professionals that, you know, it's marketing. It's marking you when there's 5,000 different coaches on there, it's about marketing and all that stuff. Plus, I'd have found out they were they were all uh marking up lessons after I had marked up the lesson to account for this stuff. So now what I'm gonna do is I'm actually gonna do a limited number of people. I've Got one professional that that it's basically you text me your video as long as it's in the right format. I plug it into my XVU software, which I've been a I've been was able to beta test with them, and then also now a brand ambassador, phenomenal 2D to 3D uh software point shoot. It's got your AI models. It is just streamlined, totally streamlined my analysis process. So as long as you shoot it, no matter where you're at, it's like having me in your pocket. You give me, give me a give me a decent angle, right? Give me the right frames and make sure that you capture everything within the frame. And in 15, 20 minutes, I can analyze it and have it right back to you while you haven't even left the range. So yeah, that'll be cool. That's included with my membership here. I can't always get back to you that fast. Most of the time I can, again, because I'm looking to do a small community. Like I don't ever want to be dealing with more than 100 people at a time. I'm looking that that sweet spot's gonna be like 60 to 100 golfers for me, depending on whether or not I'm by myself. Um and even then, I think my first move over here will be to bring a coach on that specializes in uh like early childhood development so that we can start getting into the younger guys, right? Because I like the younger guys, but I'm getting old. I can't quite keep up with like the four and the five-year-olds anymore. And so what I'd rather do is like maybe have like a high school golf, you know, a girl that that is more of a nurturing kind of energy for the littles and kind of prep and prime them, engagement, that kind of thing. Um, yeah, that that will be the next move. But my goal is to be able to take them whether they want to be recreational and stay recreational or take them all the way to the top, meaning professional and touring, if that's what they want to do, we've got the facilities here to help them.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. So that is they're very, very cool. I I had uh had some ideas about things we would talk about today, but did not realize it would get as uh potentially scientific as it did. Um it's too formal. So if somebody wants information, more information about striker's forge, where would you tell them to find it? Georeroygoff.com. George RoyGolf.com.
SPEAKER_03George RoyGolf.com.
SPEAKER_02This has been a ton of fun chatting today. Um thank you for taking time to tell the story. Uh, I need to get up and see you just to experience it on my own. Um I've seen Ryan Hardenbrook's videos and how he took Jude out and looked like they had an absolute blast. Um and I need, I've got a couple people.
SPEAKER_01We was here when our grass was dead and there were no leaves on the tree. So it looked like crap. We got grass going off chicken house. It looks nice and green. You'll feel like photo baggins through the shire as you walk around now. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh I've been thinking about my daughter the entire time. She likes golf for about three minutes, but I bet if I had her at your facility, she would have a blast with it.
SPEAKER_01So I need to carve out engagement, engagement, education, empowerment. Those are the three main things to the solution. If you are gonna be working with kids, you are not gonna be able to educate without engagement, and you're not gonna be able to empower them without either of the other two, the engagement or the education. So nail that down, right? Like that's first thing is we're gonna make sure she's having fun, right? Second thing, once she's having fun, is we're gonna figure out how to frame fun in a way that she can learn and explore, right? So that's the key. Get her out here, man. Come on up and we'll we'll get you a bucket of balls set up and we'll maybe we'll take you guys out onto the shore course, let you see what it's all about.
SPEAKER_02That would be a ton of fun. We will definitely make that happen. George, thanks for thanks for taking time to come on the show. Uh, excited to see what's in the future for Strikers Forge uh and looking forward to seeing your facility myself very soon. For George Roy, I'm Josh Decker, and this has been another episode of Off the Deck.
