Off the Deck
Golf is so much more than the scorecard and those birdies that are rarely made. It's about the people you meet along the way. From lifelong bonds to unexpected fast friends, Off the Deck highlights the lives and stories built through the game of golf.
Off the Deck
Let's Talk Golf with Jay Sapovits
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Driver off the deck for Cory Connor. Here's driver off the deck. Victor Hoplin. Oh the driver off the deck. I knew you would try this, right? Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00You have to put your foot on the gas. You pull out the driver off the deck and you put it on the drain all the way up the hill.
SPEAKER_02Welcome back into another episode of Off the Deck. I'm your host, Josh Decker. Uh, off the deck is brought to you by Idaca Golf. Uh it is still Capri season, much to my chagrin. I'm rocking the Capri Polo. I'm still ready for hoodie season uh because Steve Peering and the team at Itica are putting out some incredible hoodies. Uh, make sure you use promo code OTD25 for 25% off your purchase there at Ideca. Uh joining us today, Mr. Jay Sapovitz, um uh the the host of JSAP Chats, as well as the president and CEO of Inked. How are you doing, my friend?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, doing well, Josh. Great to see you. Good to be here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh like I was just kind of saying in the pre-show, um, once I started the show, uh, you and I have had a few conversations walking around Vegas or wherever it may have been, except probably in New York also, and just talking about golf. And I was like, you know what? I want to chat with Jay um about golf because I know you're as passionate about the game as I think I am. Um and you play a lot. Um, just recently competed in you said that the Massachusetts and Rhode Island senior AMs. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01I did. Well, I tried to qualify for the Mass Senior Am. Okay. And uh competed in the Rhode Rhode Island does it. Mass you have to qualify, and then there's a you know, a a championship proper. And then Rhode Island, the way they work it, is it's a two-day event, and there's a a uh a cut after the uh after the first day. Okay. And so you play in the event, it's just whether or not you make the cut. Ended up playing with the super senior champion the first day, which was incredible. The guy was 69 years old, survived the World Trade Center uh events. He was on floor 23, worked for Sun Microsystems, and I'm gonna tell you this guy looked like he had played golf all around the world, and I've never seen somebody putt the ball like he did that day. Oh incredible. Then he turned around the next day and uh and was even better apparently. So yeah. Did you make the golf game? No, no, no. I've I've honestly I've had a miserable co competition season. Um I'm I'm new to competing. I've never playing the game. I I didn't take golf up until I was 23, uh, really 23 years old, when I needed to fill some time. Uh it was it was it was something I I I did I got into recovery and got into golf concurrently. And I did that because I needed something that just, you know, took a lot of time up and kept me away from from the racetrack, frankly.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And uh I I worked at a golf course. I had uh the tutelage of a head professional very early in my journey, and I would play after I worked at the course every day with one of the other assistant professionals. So my teacher was a guy named Mike Dinda, very famous teaching professional out of Philadelphia, who was the head pro then. You know, we were both really young. He was a little older than I am, but vo very young, but a very well-known and well-established teaching professional. And the assistant pro, Pete Cunningham, was just a golf junkie. I mean, loved the game like you and I loved the game. And he would, he would work his assistant professional shift and then, you know, walk till it got dark and then go home and uh wasn't, you know, it just repeat like the net kit did the same thing every day, and uh, there was always someone to play with. And you know, I started like everyone else does, not being able to hit the golf ball and uh and got down to like uh 18, 16, 15 pretty quick and lived that lived in that lived in that world for a long time, but never competed. I mean, I never net events, right? And uh, so this is new in my uh in my you know, my son was a college golfer, competitive golfer. I watched him compete, but this is new for me. And uh, you know, I realized how new competition was for me in the Rhode Island Am. The Mass Am, you know, I just executed half of my shots. I mean, that, you know, I but I I really saw what experience does in competitive golf in in Rhode Island because uh this year, I mean I just turned 55 in July. You have to be 55 to compete. I had the event a few weeks ago, and uh, you know, nervy start, didn't feel the same on the putting green, hit the ball great, but just I frankly was I'll tell you exactly what I was doing. I lagged every putt. Really? Five foot putt, six foot. I was so pet. Yeah, because you got to put the ball in the hole, right? It's not like with the guys where you turn around and you throw it in with one hand or you you scoop it or rake it, or you know, I know there's guys out there. Oh, I put everything, like, stop, nobody puts everything. Like, come on. Like, I play gross games with the guys at the club all the time. Nobody puts everything into the bottom of the cup every time. Oh, I you know, it's like that's X talk, right? Right. Uh so in competition, you put everything into the hole. And I was so fearful of running my putts by or, you know, three putting that I just didn't one putt enough because I just didn't give myself enough of a chance to make enough putts, and my my arms felt different, my shoulders felt different, my breath felt different. And so I get out to a four over after three whole start, calm down, I play the next three uh uh twelve in three over. So I'm seven over. Standing on the 16th T-box. I pipe one down the middle, we have a little bit of a weight, and I decide to check the scoreboard.
unknownOh no.
SPEAKER_01And and where did you sit on that scoreboard? On the cut log. Okay. So I think I need to make par coming in. And I'm 72 yards away, middle of the fairway. I I I don't know what I I mean. I know what I did, I don't know what I did. Uh I'll just say make bogey. Nobody wants to go shot by shot. I think I need to go at least par par to give myself a chance at eight over. I have a 10, 12 foot putt. I run by eight feet because I'm trying to make it. So naturally, right? You're like, yeah. So I three putt, make double, and then the last whole I you know, bogey. Uh the reality the cut moved to nine. I could have played the last three and two over. Oh, and would have been fine. So you know, the learning experience from that as as someone who's never really competed before is a couple things, right? Funny, because I talked to my son about it. He said to me, Dad, he goes, There's two types of people in this world. There's guys who want to know and guys who can't know. And you just learned that you're a guy who can't know. And, you know, he would tell me there's kids that he played with who they'd on be on their phone or they'd be getting text from their parents and they'd w want to know where they're at on the scoreboard. You know, you hear it during PGA Tour broadcast. Does he know? Has he seen the scoreboard? Does he know where he's at? And some guys are like, no, heads down. I approached him, doesn't want to know where. And then other guys are like, they absolutely want to know. And uh, yeah, I just don't think that I have the um experience yet to know. And I just really need to be locked in on the next shot. So um, yeah, that's my it's been a tough, tough competition. I know I'll tell you, it's so emotionally draining because you I put, I don't know about yeah, I'm I'm sure you're similar to me, right? Like I have a very like I play often, so my ego is such that I want a low number. I'm playing, I'm hitting the ball great. I'm hitting the ball better than I've ever hit it before. And my handicap is just going up and up and up right now. And uh my my competitive rounds aren't great, and you know, it feels a little embarrassing, and you look forward to something and then you're disappointed. It's just it's a really it's a tough slot, man.
SPEAKER_02It's tough. Well, so I think it's interesting. You said your son played collegiately, that that he even identifies like so I've always just kind of assumed that if I because I'm I'm like you just described, that I do not need to know the score. If I if I know that if I'm playing well, the the best round of my life, I looked at my stepdad at the turn and I said, do not tell me where I sit. I do not want to know because I'm a middle midget on the course.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I think it's interesting that your son like differentiates that that that's two types of people. See, I've always viewed it as like, okay, I've got to figure out how to overcome that and become stronger mentally, but it sounds to him like from talking with him, your conversation with him, that that's just part of it, that there are just people that are that way and there's no getting past it, which is kind of terrifying because I think I'm in that boat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I you know look, I mean, you know when you're playing well. Yeah. You know when you're playing well. And you know, I had it Sunday. I I was, you know, I think three over as I I I think three over on the 16th or 17th hole. And uh, you know, I ended I made a double coming in. You know, you know, I still shot in the 70s, which to me is like the that's the barometer of where my game is right now is anything with a seven on it, I'm happy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01Um that's just kind of where it's at. Uh I I need to focus on my fitness in the over the over the winter. I you know, I told myself it's I gotta tell you, it's hard, right? I live in Foxboro, Massachusetts, and I went to a titleist performance institute trainer over the winter to get an analysis. Over the winter I I kind of stopped the season. I was like a four and a half handicap. And you know, that's since ballooned um to in the sixes. But uh my fitness uh you know what TPI is? Yeah. Have you ever done the assessment?
SPEAKER_02No, I've not done the assessment.
SPEAKER_01I'm a 36 handicap in fitness. Okay. So room for humiliating. Room for improvement there. It's humili. Josh, it's humiliating to say it out loud. Yeah. I'm a 36 handicap. They, you know, they do it on the handicap system. My fitness is a 36 handicap. So yeah, room for improvement. I mean, like zero, zero flexibility, you know, probably overweight. I mean, my hip tar, everything. It's like I can't balance sucks, like all of it, right? The fact that I hit the ball in the middle of the fairway is like incredible. But I do. And uh last year I said, all right, I'm gonna get committed, I'm gonna work on my fitness over the offseason, I'm gonna show up at the club, and the guys aren't gonna recognize me. News flash, they recognize me. It's cold in Massachusetts. The last thing I'm an early guy. I love to get to my office pre-7 a.m. every day. It's just what I do. So the gym this trainer trains out of, they don't have showers. You're not really a member of the gym, you just go train with them. It's about three miles away from my house, not far, but it's far when it's 22 degrees. Right, right. And so I didn't put the effort in. And I I felt like I really paid the price this year. I had a cortisone shot for tennis elbow. I mean, don't get old, man. It sucks. Right. I had a cortisone shot for tennis elbow that felt great. Great. Took one bad swing. I've played in pain the rest of the the rest of the year. That's not the reason that I'm not playing well, but it's definitely the reason that I'm not out, you know, working on my game or hitting balls. I really I really can't hit balls. Um but if I don't at my age work on my fitness over this offseason, I'm I'm only going to continue to decline because I'm not getting longer. And, you know, I still play the course, I still play most of my rounds, but at where I play is 64 or 6750. Okay. So 6750 tree lined in Massachusetts isn't short.
SPEAKER_02Right, yeah. No, that's challenging.
SPEAKER_01And uh I I have a uh strong desire to shoot in the 70s. So you know, you can only make so many putts.
SPEAKER_02Right. So what's the plan for this offseason?
SPEAKER_01What's the plan, or what am I gonna do? Because they're very different. Well, they're very different. I it's it like I said, it's hard because in in my mind, uh, I have this whole idea of what I want to do, and yet I had the same thing last year, and I just made excuse after excuse after excuse not to do it, and I came into this season completely unprepared. And you know, I I guess it really comes down to a reality check of, you know, I'll do anything. You hear people say all the time, right? You know, I would do anything to break 90. I would do anything to break 80. All right. I mean, I've broken 80, right? But I want to, you know, I wanna I I would like to shoot a round before I die uh of par or better, and the best ever round is uh one over, right? So I'm kind of right there, and look, I I've been there plenty of times. I mean, I've been around, you know, two birdies coming in and you shoot par is around it, right? And I've been there four or five times in the last few years. So I feel like I I have the game to do it and I understand the mental aspect of it, uh, but I also um I'm not doing everything it takes to get to where I want to be. And so I think that the pain of my prof my my um competitive season this year is uh sufficient enough to to finally make a difference, but uh but we'll see.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, to light that fire a little bit. I think so. How's your game? It's it's okay right now. So I actually just got in from a fitting. Uh my wife got me a mini driver for for my birthday, uh and just went and and got that fitting completed. Um, and she knocked it out of the park. The the driver that she gave me on my birthday is or the mini driver is exactly what I came home with, the new titleist GTS 300. Um and are you a tech are you a techie? Not really, no. No, I am not a techie. Um, but I I walked into the hitting bay today and the guy was like, all right, so what's the goal of this club? I said, I need a fairway finder. I said, I'd love to hit this thing like 260 off the T and just know that it's gonna be in the middle of the fairway. And first swing with it, like 260. I mean, with a little bit of right to left. And he looked at me, he was like, Do you do we need to continue with this fitting? Like, I think we've we've got the right club. But we tweaked some things and and I've got a little my face to path changes a little bit. I I'm not consistently open or closed, it oscillates and and kind of goes either direction, which is not great. So one of the things that we talked about in the fitting was like, hey, he's like, you need a bigger grip. A bigger grip will help resolve some of that.
SPEAKER_01Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_02And I didn't know that. So, but no, I'm not a techie. So so games I've I played last week and and I've only shot in the 70s a handful of times. I played a course here in town that's a par 70 and shot a 79, which was a lot of fun. Um, but yeah, the game's okay. I'm not putting well right now, which is pretty frustrating. Um, because I have kind of that's been a source of pride for me, is generally I'm a good putter. And right now it's it, I I don't know where the ball's going. Um, and like you're talking about like knowing things and like knowing where your score is. I I notoriously, as do as does everybody else, leave birdie putts woefully short. Um yeah, a lot of three putt bogeys, which is just like uh a kick right between the legs. Like that's so frustrating.
SPEAKER_01Do you track your putts per round? Do you track your stats?
SPEAKER_02I don't. I'm not a I'm not a big stat guy. Maybe I should be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, not listen, neither neither am I. Neither am I. I I I don't but I don't I'm not a yeah, I mean my putting's improved. I I I worked really hard this year on my putting, and my putting is what let me down the most so far, you know, in my in in my competitive rounds.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so I think that was a big point. Uh that's a that's a really disappointing that's a really disappointing aspect of it. But I'm like you, like I'm not a techie. I'm not I don't track I don't I know guys who do. I I don't know, maybe I would get better. I am uh but uh listen, I mean you're young, right? What two 260? I mean that's 260 is a dream. If I hit the ball 260, I think I would be a scratch player. Okay, but that's the that's the crazy thing. I mean, I'm a 230, I'm a 230 guy, but I I never miss fairways.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you're probably every single time, aren't you?
SPEAKER_01Every single time. And it's not uncommon for people to say to me, like, do you ever miss the fairway? Like, usually, like, that's the comment that I'll get, especially if I play with new people. They're like, Man, you hit the driver straight. And I do, it's the best club in my bag. If I get to a part three and it's over 215 yards, I hit my driver.
SPEAKER_02And just chug down on it?
SPEAKER_01Sometimes. Sometimes I chug down on it. Sometimes I don't. You know, it depends. You know, I mean, how about this? I can't get three wood. I I can't reliably get three wood. I'd rather hit a smooth driver out on a 215 to 230 par three than I would hit a three-wood. Yeah, I don't like I don't really like stepping on clubs much. That's not my uh my my step on is uh is a uh is a pull.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Not a hook.
SPEAKER_01I don't I don't hook the ball, I pull the ball. Okay. And uh I almost wish I would hook the ball because when you hook the ball, you have at least a moment of hope while it's going.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it starts off going, yeah. And then just veers left or right, depending on the side of the ball you're playing from.
SPEAKER_01No, but no, pulling is just like an assault off the club face. It's left and it's going left, and there's nothing to do but watch it go left, and it's just a painful, painful mess.
SPEAKER_02So so what is the the the game like that you're playing every Saturday? Are you are you in a big dog fight? Are you in a bit what what's your group like?
SPEAKER_01No, it's a group that's uh it's this it uh my group's a it's so Friday is uh five Friday's a gross game where it's uh the the better players at the club all get together and they draw an ABC D guy, um, which is cool because I've toggled anywhere between B and D. Um and you know, there's guys who definitely like me because they play I play better with them, and then there's guys who don't because I don't play better with them. You know, whatever. You just end up clicking with a bunch of guys, and then uh the the Saturday-Sunday game is uh is good. I mean it ranges anything from the you know, I mean one guy shot 70 this this weekend. Um, you know, everybody's here's my take on country club or membership golf, and and this is what I love the best out of it. First off, I'm part of the club I'm part of is a working man's club. It's great. I love bringing people there, it's a shoes in the parking lot type of place. Guaranteed to see a work truck, but also see a cup, you know, a Porsche. Okay. Um, so everybody is there, is is super friendly and and and gets along with one another, and the course has got great conditions and cool layout, and just a really super fun place. But what I love about playing with a group of guys on a consistent basis is that everybody knows who everyone in the group is, right? You know the guy who is gonna stand over the ball too long, you know the guy who's gonna uh hit the ball hit the hit the fairway, you know the guy who's the 18 that's gonna pop up and shoot a 79 once or twice a summer. You just know who people are, and I tell them the beautiful part about knowing somebody's game is that when they play better than they are, you know it. And when they play worse than they are, you know it. So you don't really, you know, you don't have to apologize for anything. You don't have to, not like I would anyway, but like, and uh, you know, you just form relationships and bonds with guys who you otherwise wouldn't. And um and that so that I love playing in that in a in a in a weekly group, but I love playing with you know with the same guys over and over. because of it. It's a big thing. And you know, they get to know your, you know, like they know my son, or I'll bring guys for business. And, you know, you know, like, you know, I, you know, we we have to be with Jay. Why would you choose to be? You know, so like it's like it's it it it's that's the best to me that the guys is the best part of it. And I've been at other places where there's no games, you can't get a group, you know, it's bring your own group um or it's not friendly. Or it it just doesn't have that same vibe. So finally getting to be somewhere where where there's like you know it's at you know the season's almost coming to an end now but on any typical day if you go over at five o'clock you're gonna have three or four guys that are standing around. You can go out with two or three guys different guys and just um yeah it's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah that's great. Are y'all all riding or walking or is it a mix?
SPEAKER_01Yeah everybody walks I ride. Um rare rarely rarely rarely guys I've got look I'm I'm a uh I'm a physical mess right now I mean my uh my foot isn't in great condition and I'm just concerned that I'm gonna get less rounds if I don't uh if I if I have to uh if I have to walk now when I play with a if I have a caddy or if I'm in a nicer club and I've got a great experience coming up you know I'll definitely walk.
SPEAKER_02I mean I've you know walked pebble I walked whistling I walked the country club I mean you know I walk uh but on a Saturday or Sunday or Friday or you know otherwise um yeah no this guy's in a car yeah I'm not part of the walking mafia I think it's nonsense I think uh you know all these opinions you know golf was meant to be walked it's a it's a game of conditioning take a breath yeah like uh so you you do have I was I was looking at your uh LinkedIn and I love how active you are on your LinkedIn um you had uh as we're thinking about walking versus writing um you were not a fan of speakers on a golf course I'm curious was was there a an event that happened or an occurrence or something that happened that led you to that opinion or is it just a longstanding view of your own that you don't like music on the course?
SPEAKER_01I have a terrible case of rabbit ears. Okay so I mean I don't know what else to tell you I've got rabbit ears like I just do and uh yeah it's I tell you I think I've I've almost cured it honestly like I've really worked hard on it this year but I can't I mean like I I if something I'm over the ball and you know I I'm a fast player fast not like timely I I play fast like if it were me I'd be 18 holes in 90 minutes you know with one other player in a car in two seconds it's like and not rushing to hit a shot I normal three normal foresims for me should be played in 315 I I can't imagine why you would need longer um I'm gonna get to the ball and hit it I don't take a lot of practice swings I'm deliberate on the putting greens only place I am and all the work I do has been put in way before it's my turn so there's you know no nonsense yeah I fix multiple ball marks on every green um I replace divots I you know fill sand with sand sand because I have the cart and I can race it ahead and you know carry got extra dip uh sand mix for guys but I'll back off a shot if you're talking while I'm swinging. Okay. And yeah I mean I just music's unnatural to me on the golf course I I never had it when I was younger it didn't exist it was etiquette wise not you know frown it was frowned upon and uh but I think it's uh I think it's intrusive candidly right so like the guy I played with this weekend in the group put on music didn't ask I didn't say anything I don't love it um but he wants music so I have to listen to it. I mean isn't it the same as talking on the subway on your phone? I I mean I just don't know why it's in you know you see posts all the time on social media about people in the airport who play things without a speaker right right why why is it different with your music on the golf course when you're paired with me so I'm I it's funny I sell them right it's an idea that's think about that yeah listen ever not every opinion I have on social media has to be self-serving I mean I try I I pride myself on being authentic it bothers me I don't like it I'm not a fan of it I think when you ask if you I mind it you're putting me in a a position that I'm not comfortable in uh but uh yeah I tolerate it so that's also part of being in a good member and being part of a club is you tolerate uh things that you otherwise would not enjoy. I I was playing with my son and one of his friends and another one of his teammates and we're in separate carts. Forget this is a while back and one guy's playing one music and the other guy's playing another music and the carts came together on a T box and the music's blaring it's battling each other and like what are we doing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah that's that I do not like that. And I think so I think I am okay with the music because then I'm okay with people potentially talking and I'm not gonna interesting if if the music for me because I can go with or without like I when I played Friday I didn't we didn't listen to anything um and it was great. But I I think I use it as like something to drown out the potential conversation to keep me from stepping off the ball.
SPEAKER_01I understand that because I'm the same like whispering is the worst by the way if you're gonna talk talk. But like whispering because now like I'm like you know what do you got back there?
SPEAKER_02Yeah what are you talking about now? Yeah because because I hate and I will step off the ball if especially if you're not talking and then start talking as I'm addressing the ball now uh the rabbit ears you were talking about that you have earlier I've got I've got that and I'm like okay let's we we either need to talk and keep talking or don't like let's choose one or the other and just stay consistent. That's what I want is consistency with the noise. Whether it's speaker talking whatever that's if it's inconsistent is where I get bothered.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I mean every by the way every Sunday I uh I've devoted to this and I have for the last two years I I call it golf Sunday and I post about golf a different topic on my LinkedIn every Sunday I I pick a different topic and I try to pick a topic that's not like the hot topic all the time uh and like pile on like everyone else because I figure like I'm posting about golf every week uh and I don't have this ego where I'm like everybody needs to hear what my opinion is on the this scandal or live gol or whatever. So I try to pick topics that other golfers can can associate with and and for example speakers or no speakers on the golf course.
SPEAKER_02Yeah that's a that's a that's a hot one. What kind of comments did you get on that? Definitely mixed definitely mixed there's people who definitely agree with me and others who don't it it's kind of right where I expected it would be uh so and inked is of course your company uh and you put logos on anything and everything what has been the best swag item that you have seen on the golf course or for a golf course for golfers well this isn't going to be the most exciting comment uh answer that I ever give but I I buying for golfers and I actually wrote a a la a very long post on that buying for golfers especially golf outings is is an interesting endeavor because oftentimes folks will want to buy golf equipment or golf accessories for golfers to give away uh at at golf events and I think I think it's really difficult because you know I might buy you a sleeve of Pro V1s and you'll play them but you might like the Chrome Soft and that might be your ball right and right you know now all of a sudden that's gonna go in your bag you'll use them but you know you could lose them too and like I don't know where that so I always like the 24 by 42 striped or non-striped uh cotton Terry you know towel yeah and I I think a go I I always think that a nice golf towel because it's got malleable uses uh and I think that's important right if you buy something that's golf accessory only it doesn't have other uses but if I fish I can use a 24 by 42 towel if I do fitness I can use a 24 by 42 towel if I golf I can use a 24 by 42 towel it's just kind of the right size towel that it can do a lot of different things. Yeah um but I I'm always a big fan of of just doing a just doing a a straight up golf towel or golf umbrellas are always great because again umbrellas got multiple huge well tons of staying power too I mean you know I I have a I have umbrellas 25 years old 20 year old umbrellas um so huge staying power um I think everybody needs a poker chip I don't think there's any question there divot repair tools are nice they feel like they feel like a uh you know especially the pitch fix um they feel like a souvenir and you can make them feel like a souvenir people will use them um but yeah uh if you're gonna buy a uh trifolded grommeted uh golf towel save your money right right yeah I I don't need that and I don't want it yeah yeah and you're right about the golf ball thing too like that's because I play left ash and so and and I'm again we already talked about me being the middle midget if I'm standing over Privy one I'm gonna be like oh this is too spinny for me this is about to go way right like I I know how bad I'm gonna hit this golf ball so I don't want to play it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah it's hard to buy golfers it's I tell people you don't buy you try I try in promo and merch and swag not to buy things for people at an inexpensive price point that they often buy for themselves. So nice glasses sunglasses for example right sunglasses are very popular. Either buy inexpensive sunglasses that you're content to have as giveaways that you know are meant to be giveaways or buy extremely expensive sunglasses that many companies run programs with like Ray Ban or Maui Jim and have someone they do these a lot at sales conferences or sales events uh or off sites uh people pick out and are able to apply their personal taste to it so I I try to tend to go towards things people wouldn't purchase for themselves and they to me become you know more giftable yeah um I can tell you great coffee gift for example sharpie pen you can do a little I mean you could do for under five dollars you could give everybody a three pack or a little three set in a nice custom box of three different color mini sharpie pens. Really seems like seems like a good gift to me. Yeah yeah I think yeah so especially different colors yeah that sounds great right so to me you can get creative you don't have to spend a ton of money and give people something that like you ever you ever throw away a sharpie pen?
SPEAKER_02No not unless it's dried out no right right I feel the same about Zippo lighters I'm I'm hot on zippo lighters right now anything with a brand name is always of uh of great value to people um you know so lighters work for golfers because of uh cigars but they also work for non-golfers because of camping uh s'mores fire pits yeah candles you know go into anybody's house smoke I mean you know smoke you're gonna have a drawer of lighters somewhere you're gonna have lighters right so uh yeah I love the business too it's uh it's a fun business it's it allows me to be creative and and gives me a creative outlet I think golfers uh are creative by the way I see behind you you've got here so let me talk about swag for a second in the context of your setup that you have there okay you've got custom head covers behind you right where are they from uh so I've got the the well the big gulp uh that was actually my design that was from the 7-Eleven invitational at Landman so there's only uh eight of those in existence uh landman and then uh the swinging Albi logo because I went to Auburn and love Auburn golf um but yeah yeah the the big gulp one this is a great one uh a friend of mine did the embroidery um and they turned out fantastic uh yeah um and yeah love this piece uh shoot or shoot golf he's a friend of the program uh lives up in Huntsville um but yeah so yeah those are my head covers it's very hard and I'm this is more directed towards brands right because not everybody's gonna have it as a setup in their golf podcast right it's very very difficult to get a a head cover in someone's bag makes sense makes complete sense I mean I've got let me think of your bag what do you have on your back so right now uh the the head covers that are in my bag are a are you familiar with flag bag yes so a a a landman flag bag uh is on my driver uh from landman out Nebraska that's a place near and dear to my heart um old Elm in Chicago uh I got to play there a few years ago um they uh that is the club with the most members that are also members at Augusta National. Yeah um so that and then uh the the you'll you'll like this on my putter right now uh lab golf I love uncrustables I mean I love uncrustables and lab golf just did a collab with Uncrustables and they did a strawberry head cover and so that's what's what's on my putter right now.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yeah super personal to you yeah very personal right so those are the covers that are in your bag yeah so I've got my son's college head cover for his driver on my driver I've got a uh head cover on my three wood from this is uh I I'm old so there's gonna be a lot more of them than in your bag that I've got the head cover from the Northern Junior where he played against Ben James who's on the tour. That's correct. Right he qualified for the tournament he played in it he gave me a gift of uh the Thursday night men's league uh head cover from Club Pro Guy okay nice nice so that's on that's on my hybrid and then uh he played in the uh national high school they won the high school club uh the high school um state tournament and they got invited to the national high school club uh championship down at Pinehurst so I have a Pinehurst and then we went for the week and I have a Pinehurst on my uh on my uh it's like a six iron six hybrid so my putter and my putter cover is uh Beth Page Black nice so that's my bag yeah those are five head covers on my bag no position is open yeah and you're and you're not gonna replace them with something else unless your son gives you something else that has sentimental value.
SPEAKER_02I mean yeah like that's you're absolutely right I've never thought about that because I even I'm the one that did these head covers I've got another I'm looking at more head covers to my left my I've got my wingfoot head cover and then the Sweet and Scove Road show head cover uh and they're all just on display I've actually learned a great way to display head covers is put a full coat can and just set them on top of the coat can and it works beautifully.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I it's a great gift they're cool but if the intention is to get onto somebody's bag that's really difficult to do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah because you and I both just gave great examples of things that are sentimental to us that we've got memories. I mean yeah just tell me what gets replaced yeah that's where I always go to when I want to you know when I'm thinking about a souvenir when I'm in the Pro Shop because I think people also have go-to souvenirs right I know uh it's uh uh it's a poker chip it's a a divot repair tool um to me those are those are those are always one too and if I can sometimes I like when I like when places have uh um I like when they have a uh like a a tumble like I don't not a tumbler but the turvis style I like the turvust style I like the turvust style uh mugs um rarely rarely is it ever apparel I'm not um you know I'm ruined unfortunately being in the business yeah I know what things cost uh price but and you see a shirt for 130 bucks and it makes you want to vomit I mean yeah although I will say that you know more complicated the logo or more original or unique something is you know my my my kids know not to buy a one color t-shirt but yeah um so it yeah but those are my go-to what about you so lately it's been flags uh interesting flags and art um just because uh and I'm running out of wall space um and a wife's already telling me we're gonna have to move if I get any more flags because I even I don't even have all of them up that I've got framed. Um just because I I kind of liked that again I've got plenty of polos um and too many hats uh too many visors and so just something that still evokes the emotion and the memory of like seeing that and be like oh yeah I remember playing uh old McDonald like playing old back at Bandon was a a great experience it was my first loop out at Bandon I was playing it with three really good friends we had a great caddy and so that's just something that has been a different purchase for me lately. Um and then like I said the art the art is finding some good artists and people that do really good golf art. Um I've had a guy on the on the show uh who does uh charcoal paintings Mark Rivard charcoal golf and he's done a few things from Sweeten's Cove from Landman um I think it was maybe prairie dunes that he did like all 18 holes for them or something um so that's been fun just to because it's it also those pieces like the the painting I got from Mark Rivard my wife was like oh that's beautiful let's hang it in the living room and I was like done like okay it's it's going up right now I'm I'm putting a nail in the wall um because yeah I mean you can end up and then like the yeah thinking about the head covers is an interesting kind of thought experience experiment of just like yeah there's not a spot for that um I do have I like I like I do like hats too by the way I mean I'm not okay I'm not anti-hats but which is funny uh I so I've never been a big Tiger Woods guy.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_01I listen I I mean obviously his game like I'm not I don't dispute his greatness like obviously but I was uh you know I grew up I mean I was a Jim Furrick guy obviously for my business and etc so I love Jim and Tiger and Jim were foes and Tiger would beat Jim and you know all that stuff but um uh I bought my first ever Sunday red hat.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Have you owned any Sunday red yet? I have not it's great.
SPEAKER_01Is it really so it's it's great it's great.
SPEAKER_02I I was I want to hate it I want to hate it okay understand I want to hate it it I it's one of the best hats I've ever owned I love so I was I was so excited when I heard the name of the brand and then when I saw how they did the branding that excitement swung the complete opposite direction. I was like why are we calling it Sunday and I understand the story behind it. I just think it's dumb um maybe but the products the product's terrific Okay.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I'm not selling for it.
SPEAKER_02Are they as expensive as those like melon hats that are like $90? Because that's I think ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01I think I was I think it was a $42 hat at a reasonable.
SPEAKER_02I mean it's still high, but that's the $90 hat thing blows my mind. I don't know why uh the fact that they're being sold blows my mind.
SPEAKER_01I'm not a melon, I'm not a melon guy. You don't have to believe me, I'm not a $90 hat guy either. I I hear you. Yeah, it's crazy. But no, I uh the Sunday Red, uh I was I I was pleasantly surprised. I mean, I you know what you do in the Pro Shop, you try hats on, and I I have I like unstruck, I it's hard for me with a I need low profile unstructure Imperial, for example. You know, the X210P is sort of my go-to. And uh none of the hats that were there, and I was definitely buying a hat um w worked. And then the next thing you know, I put on the Sunday red hat, and I was like, oh, this sucks. And I put it back. And I wasn't saying it sucks because it was not comfortable. I was saying it sucks because it was my only option. And I ended up biting the bullet and pulling the trigger on it. And uh, yeah, I mean, listen, call it what it is, it's a good hat.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I need to I need to check out some of their stuff. So you mentioned Jim Furick. How how did you guys become friends?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I cold called his agent with an idea to create a one-day special event to the PGA tour, put together a business plan, drove up to uh New York to pitch them. They somehow said yes, and uh then I sold my little uh tail off to make sure that we could we could pay for the uh pay for the expenses that we had committed to with uh not having any money in the bank to do it. So um I ended up building that's the that's the flag behind me, right? That's the the Excel on Invitab. It was the first ever event. It was 13 days before the Ryder Cup and uh at the Brook at the country club at Brookline, the famous Justin Leonard putt. Yeah, which by the way I had a chance to hit this year because the pin when I played it was in the exact same place. And almost jarred it, but did not. And uh yeah, um we had Jim Furick, Lee Janssen, Justin Leonard was in the event, and uh Davis Love was supposed to be the fourth. He pulled out two weeks before the event. Jim recruited a young Sergio Garcia to play in what then was his first ever uh special event. Well, you know, he was 19 years old, he just came off the Medina PJ Championship with the jump. Yes, and uh yeah, we we ended up uh selling another 3,000 tickets in two weeks and had 7,500 people following one skins group around. Uh and uh the event ended up lasting 11 years, so uh 10 years, 11 events. So that's how I knew and met Jim, and uh we've been friends ever since. Now, you know, I'm listening I'm not uh I'm not I don't I don't fanboy it. I you know him and Tab are great. I love them, they're awesome, they've been awesome to my life, but he has his life, I have my life. Yeah, and uh we end up coming together once a year. I mean, you know what it's like, you work with celebrities. Uh we come together, I'm happy for him that he's gonna be on Golf Channel. I think he's great. I'll always be a fan of his. Um it's absolutely criminal that he was not a first ballot Hall of Famer, and the golf powers that be should be embarrassed and uh should should just I mean it's just so disgusting that he could have the career he had, um, 19 straight international teams or something ridiculous.
SPEAKER_02Um that many stra like for Ryder Cup and President's Cup.
SPEAKER_01Qualified. Never qualified, not picked. Whoa. Qualified, qualified for yeah, I think I think I think it's uh I think it's eight and not seventeen or nine eighteen, something in insane for almost a 20-year period. Um his lifetime starts, he was uh he top 10 in a third of his lifetime starts before the wrist injuries, you know, like his last take his last 50-60 starts off the books, um, you know, 19 19 wins across uh across the globe, major champion.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, if he's not a first ballot Hall of Famer, what is uh it's just awful, you know.
SPEAKER_01I can't it and then you hear talk like Justin Rose, oh Justin Rose has to be a fur ball. Like Jim blew Justin Rose's career away.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's not close. So I but you know, that's uh those are X arguments. You know, I I I I battle it out on X a lot in my golf opinions. I I that's like my and I I I do it with my real name. I don't run a burner account. I'm not looking to, you know, I just I have very strong opinions as it relates to the world of golf. It's sort of a a way I blow off steam from the the day the daily grind of running a business.
SPEAKER_02And uh yeah, that's uh that's a was that like the first made-for-tv event? Like like the first kind of like the match? Was that something you dreamt up?
SPEAKER_01Uh well it wasn't, I wouldn't say it was like the match. I mean, it was no, I I I mean I modeled it after the skins game. Okay. It was a skins game, it was a four-player skins game. And the reason I came up with the idea is because I was a talk show host in Philadelphia as my first job from the age of 23 to 25. And when I left that business because of, you know, I mentioned before I got into recovery, I left the radio business to really focus on on getting healthy and not give my opinion on who was going to win the you know, Eagles Dallas game on Sunday, uh, which was a very unhealthy environment for me to be in.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, I knew Philly was only going to react to professional sports. I knew we only had the champions at the time, the senior tour event, and there was no big-time professional golf. You know, professional golf tends to go to smaller markets where they can compete less and be more of the show. And I think it's a smart strategy. Um, but I felt like it was a gap in Philadelphia because they no longer had the best in golf in uh in the city. And that was our slogan, the best in golf. And when we brought Furick, Leonard, Jansen, I mean, Jansen was coming off two U.S. Open wins, Josh. I mean, he was the real deal. And uh Davis Love, they were the best players of that time. Yeah, that's so cool. And then to fill in Sergio, yeah. Everybody played in it but Tiger. I mean, that's that's kind of the way it went. Everybody but Tiger played in it.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Wow. I didn't I did not know that about your background. I mean, I know you love the game, but I didn't know that you'd been that heavily involved in it to have run an event. That's that's so cool.
SPEAKER_01Create, create, cre created, owned, ran the whole thing, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so that ran you said for 10 years. What what was when did it start and when did it end?
SPEAKER_01We started in 97, really. The planning, the first event was uh was the Ryder Cup year of Brookline, so it was 99, or I think it was 99. I'm I'm old. So 99. Uh, and then we had three events almost uh inside of like the first 19 months, just with the way that because we started in September and then moved it to June. So it was like September, June, June.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, and then I um I sold my I sold the I sold my uh my stake in the business and uh moved my family up to Boston to become one of the originals at a small little company that you know called Mark Marquee Jet. So while the event persisted for a long time, I actually exited it after its fourth event.
SPEAKER_02Okay. That's that's incredible. That's that's so cool. And I love that you have the flag behind you. What looks like golf balls signed by all four guys that participated.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was golf balls. We actually sold this at our um we we sold the flag at an the auction for the event, and you know, my father-in-law bought it for me, which was super cool. Oh, that's cool. And you know, that's me, that's him buying it. That's actually you could see here is uh Mike Furick, Jim's dad, is right under my finger. Um yeah, that's that's so I have this picture there, and uh um yeah, it was that's my father-in-law. That's awesome. Notice I'm the I'm the tall guy in the family.
SPEAKER_04Right.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah. So you know, it was just a super meaningful thing that I I had done in the golf world, and um it's something I carry with me now all the time. I I don't know who knows it, who doesn't know it. I don't um yeah, but I played in uh a handful of Furican friend imitationals, Exelon. You know, keep in mind, right? It's the Constellation. Constellation bought Exelon.
SPEAKER_04Okay, right?
SPEAKER_01So the senior event is literally name. Jim wore Exelon on his shirt forever. Yeah, that was my that was me. Oh, okay. Wow. Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_02I this is why I wanted to have you on the show because I I knew there was stuff that I didn't know that I would love to hear um that are incredible stories. You've been um amazingly generous with your time. Uh I'll get a couple quick questions for you and then uh we'll get you out of here. Um if you've played anywhere new in the last 12 months, what would be your favorite course out of those new courses that you've played?
SPEAKER_01It's either the country club or pebble.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's so that happened recently.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. Yeah, I just played the summer. Oh, wow. I played what I played well at the country club. I think I shot 81.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Really well. Did you have good weather at Pebble?
SPEAKER_01I had like the two most perfect days you could ever ask at the two. Yeah, per Pebble was a perfect weather day. Uh played like uh I had never picked up a golf club before.
SPEAKER_02Was that just nerves because you were because of the location?
SPEAKER_01No, what it was, but it didn't bother me. I just enjoyed the day at Pebble Beach. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Uh you mentioned already your your love for your driver. What's your second favorite club in the bag right now?
SPEAKER_01Probably a 52 degree that I put in uh a month ago. So um I'd never really I'm not a techie, I'd mentioned that, but uh one of the guys at my club used to be an assistant professional. He's like 6'7, he's huge, Berkey, he's kits the ball friggin' mile. It's crazy, right? We're the exact opposite. He's just this most sweetheart of a guy, he's a young guy. So he sees me hitting my wedges, he's like, yeah, he's like, you ever think about getting more bounce? And I'm like, what? And uh so he put me on to uh eat more bounce with my wedges, and I went into my garage. I took one of my son's old wedges, 52 degree with 12 degree bounce, and it's I I know it's hyperbolic, but we're golfers, it changed my life.
SPEAKER_02So is that just hitting and checking, like stopping right where you want it to?
SPEAKER_01No, it just gets through, you know, it just gets through the ground a little easier, and I'm just I'm not I'm not leaving the leaving the club in the ground. It it it it allows me to to you know swing through the ball and and execute my shots more.
SPEAKER_02Okay. What's your favorite course in New England? So many good ones. You're surrounded by some pretty awesome golf.
SPEAKER_01I mean, the courses I'm gonna say, I don't know if anybody would would know. Um, and I've had the fortune to play a lot of them. Uh I don't know how you would define favorite. Like, is favorite the one that if I had one round of golf left in my life, I'd go play, or is it the best golf course I've ever seen? Yeah, I mean, be the country club.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah. The place looks just the history and like the color of the clubhouse, everything associated with the country club, just like screams like quintessential, like just crisp, perfect, like, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um I've had the I've had the good fortune. I mean, I grew up outside of Philadelphia, the golf course scene there is insane and great. But New England, the golf course scene is also incredible. I mean, it's it it it's it's hard to go wrong. I love the tree line. Um, but look, out west, the course where my son played his college golf, Taconica Golf Club is it's routinely ranked. You want to talk about a a fight that I get in online. Yale is routinely ranked the number one college golf course in the country. Terrible No, it's not. Conditions are conditions, expensive, no thanks. Taconic golf club is the number one college golf club course that you can play on campus golf course. Period. That's incredible. So where is it? Williamstown, Massachusetts. Oh, okay. Farthest west and north you can go in the state before you hit New York and Vermont.
SPEAKER_02Okay. When you're saying out west, I thought you meant like Arizona, but no, you mean like right there in in Mass.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, in Massachusetts, two or two hour and 45-minute drive from my house.
SPEAKER_02Okay, Taconic. Okay.
SPEAKER_01I need to check out Taconic Club, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Awesome. Jay, thanks for coming on the show and chatting. Um this was just conversation. I love it. Um we need to play sometime together. I would love to tee it up with you.
SPEAKER_01I'd love it. I didn't know, I didn't realize you were a junkie like me. Big time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and not a techie, like we both said. Like, yeah, definitely if I can hit it good, great. I don't I don't need to know what it's set on or whatever. I just I want to just get it, get it there, get it to the hole.
SPEAKER_01I love it. Awesome.
SPEAKER_02Well, let's make that happen. Absolutely, absolutely. Well, for Jay's Tabovits, I'm Josh Decker, and this has been another episode of Off the Deck.
